Talk:Habesha peoples

Comment

erranious article If one asks any avarage ethiopian (Not those who went through the ethnic political indoctrinatin) would respond to or refer to him/self as "habesha" no mater which ethnic group one comes from. I my self do not belong to amhara or tigre but I often introduce myself as Abesha and most people I know do so. Even those who are indoctrinated do not object to it unless they are in the compony of those who expect them to protest. The article is erranious in that it does not show the reality on the ground or contain the popular practice of the time. It only projects the view held by certain political interests. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.97.212.167 (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

That's fine, and I'm inclined to think you're correct. But can you point to a reliable source to corroborate what you've said? The article merely reflects what we've been able to find in a source. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:48, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

The term Abesha refers to Semitic People of Ethiopia. You may call yourself Abesha but that does not make you Abesha (for example, you may say I am white but nobody accepts that b/c you are clearly black). You have to be born from Abesha to be called Abesha. Leaving your colonized attitude to yourself, I am born from Cushitic people and I don't want to be called Abesha. Don't try to twist a correct article to impose your personal interest on others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tumsaa (talk • contribs) 15:31, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Biher-Tigrinya and Tigre in Eritrea are NOT Habesha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Puhleec (talk • contribs) 00:59, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

What is wrong with you guys posting this crap?

The present composition of the Ethiopian population is the result of a complex and extensive intermixing of different peoples of North African, Near and Middle Eastern, and south-Saharan origin. The main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara and the Tigray-Tigrinya people, descended from Arabian conquerors. The genetic distance analysis showed the separation between African and non-African populations, with the Amhara located in an intermediate position."

"On the basis of historical, linguistic, and genetic data, it has been suggested that the Ethiopian population has been strongly affected by Caucasoid migrations since Neolithic times. On the basis of autosomal polymorphic loci, it has been estimated that 60% of the Ethiopian gene pool has an African origin, whereas ~40% is of Caucasoid derivation."

This has been discarded. Ethiopians have little to no admixture on average. This information was made on some blog and dosent reflect reality. I removed it with more realistic facts.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.103.62 (talk • contribs)

according to People_of_Ethiopia#Genetic_studies,

A recent study based on cluster analysis that looked at a combined sample of Amhara and Oromo found that they share 62% of their genome with Caucasians, 24% with sub-Saharan Africans, 8% with Austro-Melanesians, and 6% with East Asians.

this is perfectly unsurprising seeing that Ethiopia is exactly on the boundary between the Near East and Sub-Saharan Africa. --dab (𒁳) 08:19, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The article excluded the Oromo, mentioned only amhara, tigray, and guragay ... I believe many oromo might want to be included ... according to the Kibre Nagast, many first born hebrew noble sons accompanied Menelyik when he left Jerusalem to return home ... I believe after the reformation of the jewish state most jewish abesha emigrated to Israel, there are very few left in Ethiopia ... the name Abbyssinia comes from the greek word for black, and the name Eritrea comes from the greek word for red (as in, the red sea ...) ... the language of amarinnia has, I believe, a large number of words with roots common to aramaic and might be the closest living language to what Jesus spoke ... racially my eyes tell me that there is a serious mixture of semitic stock among the people, however, their resemblance to each other is stunning, suggesting that this mixture happened a long long time ago and then stopped ... I am no scholar, just a caucasian married to a habesha, friending others, learning the language and writing, and plural traveler. Coffee was first discovered in Ethiopia and the photograph of the coffee ceremony is very common but she is not a farmer, she is a live-in servant, this happens almost every day in the cities and even among diaspora communities ... and no, you could not drink a cup in one gulp if it was cold because it is so strong ... most habesha I know have terrible caffeine addictions ....

One book of the canon of the coptic (Orthodox) church is the Book of Enoch ... this material was lost to the council of Nicea and completely lost to the western world, but Jesus and Paul clearly were familiar with it and there are numerous references throughout the Bible to material in it ... there are pieces of it among the dead sea scrolls ... it is first rediscovered by western travelers to Ethiopia in the 1700's ...

hope this helps, I'm just talking ...

98.218.75.95 (talk) 19:25, 27 September 2011 (UTC)john tucker 9//2011 western calendar .... 98.218.75.95 (talk) 19:25, 27 September 2011 (UTC)john tucker 9//2011 or meskerem/2004

Oromo is not Abesha. Oromo, Somale, Afar are Cushitic people who has nothing to do with Abesha. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teferi Kebebew (talk • contribs) 14:54, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

None sense

The gene pool and ancestry of Ethiopia is purely African with very little ad-mixture. The term "Caucasian" is not only outdated, but is flat out inaccurate. There is no such thing as a "Caucasian" race, the the Haplotypes and Clades that older anthropologists have labled "Caucasian" have yet to be proven to have evolved in Europe. The most likely, and most accurate way to describe it is in situ evolution, adaptation which created an indigenous African variant. There's nothing Caucasian, Asian, or European about it. It's for the most part, African.

"the current Ethiopian gene pool may be the product of in situ differentiation from an ancestral gene pool." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.205.171 (talk) 23:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Habesha I want to know in this time what did got the population of ethiopian people & how many did we get in the world? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.96.226.93 (talk) 08:00, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Images for Ethnic Groups

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#Infobox Images for Ethnic Groups. Gyrofrog (talk) 18:44, 20 January 2011 (UTC) (Using {{Please see}}) -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:44, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Scope of article

Some recent edits have excised any mention of Eritrea or Eritreans; one edit summary suggested that Eritreans do not refer to themselves as Habesha (which contradicts my own experience). Given the shared history concerning Axum and D'mt is seems disingenuous to completely omit Eritrea. For now I've reverted to the earlier version. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:57, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

habesha definition

since there's a user that believes gureges are habesha..source "Habesha. A self-descriptive cultural definition derived from "Abyssinia", today applied to the members of the Tigrinya ethno-linguistic group, as well as Tigrinya- and Amharic-speaking Chritstians in Ethiopia".-Historical Dictionary of Eritrea-p.279 [1] Baboon43 (talk) 04:37, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

that source is just one source, it is not gospel. And this deletion of Muslim is b/c the source does not specify Muslim. That does not mean the ref is true, but the fact that it said Christian must mean it excluded Muslims for some reason. We should keep searching as I am sure the source is incorrect. BUT It is NOT OR as Christiana states it is just --Inayity (talk) 13:24, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Incomplete articles

There is much information missing regarding the Eritrean Habesha people. please participate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.209.80.123 (talk) 14:07, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Recent edits

there is no ref for this, and i would add it is terribly written and gives us no encyclopedic info. Over 5 million of these people are Coptic Orthodox, with one priest for every 92 members—the highest concentration in Ethiopia. The remainder are Muslims. There are many Muslims in Tigray Province, but they generally belong to other ethnic groups. The Tigray are reported to have fewer than 500 evangelical believers. There are more believers among the Tigrinya in Eritrea.--Inayity (talk) 13:23, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Agreed User:Inayity. Middayexpress (talk) 15:53, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Bilal

That Bilal Ibn Rabah was of Abyssinian descent is speculative. For one thing, the term "Abyssinian" was often used abroad to refer to persons in general from Abyssinia, including non-Habesha groups and individuals that had been assimilated under the empire. There are also contradictory physical descriptions of the man, some of which do jibe with an Abyssinian heritage whereas others do not particularly. Muhammad Abdul Rauf thus wrote that Bilal was of "impressive stature, dark brown complexion with sparkling eyes, a fine nose and bright skin" (which would be consistent with an Abyssinian background), whereas William Muir suggested that Bilal was "tall, dark, and with African feature and bushy hair" (which would be much less consistent with an Abyssinian background). Middayexpress (talk) 15:53, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I believe we should also add Queen of Sheba and Abram Gannibal to the list, I added Bilal ibn Rabah but it got deleted not because of his descent, but because of pictures per row but I believe that adding these three together would be good additions. PacificWarrior101 (talk) 18:01, 2 April 2014 (UTC)PacificWarrior101

Bilal's background is speculative, as explained. So is Gannibal's, and he too doesn't match the physical description. For her part, the Queen of Sheba may not have even existed, nevermind her heritage. Her existence is based on legends, unlike, say, the very real Mahra. Middayexpress (talk) 18:52, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I think it is a little strange to say he was not based upon being Dark, bushy hair. For some reason the world thinks that ALL Ethiopians have curly hair and brown skin. Well this is so not true it becomes laughable. And everything in that physical description is relative to a light skin person with straight hair. Relative to them his hair was Bushy, they have Italians who have bushy hair, would that make them non-Italian or African? I think not. And by that same yard stick, Menelik must not be Habesha based upon his features. --Inayity (talk) 21:34, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

well not anyone

anyone from Ethiopia or Eritrea? Not 100% true. We know many people are "from" Ethiopia but people from Gambela are not Habesha, i think this also extends to the Southern People's region (Surma, Mursi, etc) are not ever called Habesha. So while the identity is not taken by all, also some are not seen as Habesha. --Inayity (talk) 21:31, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Etymology

I have a problem on the the meanings of Habesha. Here in Wikipedia it was described as to refer amharic & tigrignya speakers who are only Christians.First of all this definition was taken from an Eritrean dictionary based on Eritrean perspective not Ethiopian.Eritrean politics is too much influenced by Italian divide & conquer by religion when it was under their colonization.In Ethiopia the word Habesha has been used for about 1,000 year & never been used in history to identify people who speak any particular language like it was defined here in wikipedia (Amharic, Tigrinya or semetic speakers). Note that before 19th centuary no Ethiopian know the similarities & difference between languages. Agaws were being called Habesha for 100s of years eventhough they speak a cushitic language.For northerners Agaw language might sound too different for them to understand but that doesnt make Agaws not to be considered as Habesha. I also disagree to Habesha being associated to chrstianity. Majority Muslim Amharas prefer to call themselves as Habesha than even Amhara & so do other northern Christians call them Habesha.

Today if you ask any Ethiopian to define the word Habesha he will not tell you those people who speak these languages, neither these people who follows this religion, nor to people who comes from a particular geographical area but he will tell you Habesha means people who have a Caucasoid feature who speaks either kushitic, semetic, Omotic, Oromo, Agaw, Amhara, Tigre or any other ethnicgroup who comes from the horn region & this is how it was used in our definition for 100s & 1,000 years. We use Habesha to show our racial difference from Northern & Sub Saharan Africans. In it's use by all Ethiopians it has of racial group meaning than ethnicity, language speakers & religious group. I don't know how to put this definition (the right definition) here in Wikipedia by referencing books but i tried to prove that Axum did never consider themselves as Habesha neither claimed to come from a clan called Habesha. I also tried to prove with these books that 7-12th centuary Arab travelers see the horn region as Habesha country while not pointing the term "Al Habesha" to any particular ethnic groups, language speakers & religion followers. Zeila, now in Somaliland was considered to be Habesha country by these Arab travelers.

Also I tried to define the word Habesha which comes from a mehari language originaly defined as incense gatherers but not used as a clan name that come from South Arabia & settled in North Ethiopia. There are many books proving that semetic language was spoken for more than 4,000 years (before the the rise of Axumite & Daamat kingdoms) in the horn region.Many historians now consider Axum civilization as indigenous to the Horn of Africa making the previous assumption that some Arab rulers came from Arabia, built the empire & left their language which later becomes Geez & all other semetic languages in Ethiopia to be false.

I believe the Arabs of the 7-12th centuary sees Habesha as a geographic expression given to the Horn of Africa, which explains why they never conquer Ethiopia, Eritrea & Somalia and put it under their caliphate while they crossed to Christian Europe (Spain & Southern France) to put it under their expansive caliphate that stretched upto Pakistan.Let's not corrupt our history as we should tell it to every one as it is.I mean what if one Somali boy asks his teacher why did the Muslim caliphate didn't come to horn of Africa, located just 40kms from their base Arabia, while they went upto South Europe? What answer will he give him? We know they didn't come to Habesha not because we pushed them by war but because they didnt want to and that has got to do with the first Hijira in Axum which in turn the prophet order them not to conquer Habesha.Let's leave aside the politics and tell the history as it is.

Hi EthiopianHabesha. The etymology of the term "Habesha" is quite complicated. What can be asserted with certainty is that the Gulf Arab geographers differentiated Al-Habash from Barbara to its immediate east. Al-Maqrizi wrote that Zeila was in Barbara. This geographical distinction was actually first described by the Greeks in the 1st century CE Periplus of the Erythraean Sea. Note that there was an older civilization in the Horn that was ancestral to both of these subsequent regions; this was likely the Land of Punt. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:54, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

This definition of habesha: "Habesha is believed to have given rise to the term "Abyssinia" to refer to Amharic and Tigrinya speaking Christian Ethiopians."

Was extracted from a dictionary that defines the term from Eritrean perspective. Since the word habesha's majority users are in Ethiopia (90 million) it should be defined from a dictionary that defines the term from Ethiopian perspective or even much better from books that defines it from Arabians perspective who came up with the word in the first place.

I tried to replace it with the following definition that tries to define it from European 19th centuary historians who bases their reference from European & Arabian sources.This definition is much better because it defines the term from Arabian & European perspective.

"In Arabic, the elevated plateau on the east of the Nile, from which most of the waters of that river are derived, is called Habesha, and its people Habeshi."

Hoping Middayexpress agree with it otherwise am gone have to open dispute.

Source previously used http://books.google.ca/books?id=SYsgpIc3mrsC&dq=habesha+definition&source=gbs_navlinks_s http://books.google.ca/books?id=SYsgpIc3mrsC&pg=PA279&dq=habesha+definition&hl=en&sa=X&ei=B5buUsGSH4fk2QWG9YHIDA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=habesha%20definition&f=false

Source I used https://books.google.com.et/books?id=4ugXAQAAIAAJ&dq= https://books.google.com.et/books?id=4ugXAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA462&dq=In+Arabic,+the+elevated+plateau+on+the+east+of+the+Nile,+from+which+most+of+the+waters+of+that+river+are+derived,+is+called+Habesha,+and+its+people&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3DEwVaSWA8GzswHtnYC4CA&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAw#v=snippet&q=%22In%20Arabic%2C%20the%20elevated%20plateau%20on%20the%20east%20of%20the%20Nile%22&f=false

Why are you writing in the third person? Is there someone else you are addressing other than me? If so, do let me know... At any rate, this page is on the Habesha people, not "Habshi". That etymolgy above by Tyler et al. is certainly not the traditional one. At any rate, I've asked for a Third Opinion. Middayexpress (talk) 16:37, 17 April 2015 (UTC)