Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ramona Trinidad Iglesias-Jordan

Ramona Trinidad Iglesias-Jordan

Ramona Trinidad Iglesias-Jordan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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The subject of this article fails to meet the standards of WP:N due to lack of multiple, non-trivial references in reliable, third-party sources - all I could find were obituaries, which do not satisfy the requirement. There's no Wikipedia policy or consensus that states that the oldest anything is automatically notable by the encyclopedia's standards; numerous recent AfDs on the "oldest" individuals have been kept or deleted based on their individual merits. Thus we default to the general notability guidelines and any material of encyclopedic merit can be included on the many longevity-related lists on Wikipedia. Canadian Paul 18:56, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

• Keep She was the world record holder. the previous AfD of similar record holder (1, 2, 3, 4) result was keep, in the same way as this article should be keep. also, I gave an improvement in the problems of this article.[1] --Inception2010 (talk) 20:28, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NOPAGE. Almost half of the article is about the mechanics and trivia of verification, plus the fascinating fact that she and her husband were interviewed together for the 1920 census. Wow! The rest is pedestrian details of everyone's life: born, married, worked, died. EEng (talk) 16:14, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
• Delete and redirect to List of the oldest verified people. Nothing here justifies a stand-alone article. WP:NOPAGE. David in DC (talk) 18:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
• Keep World's oldest human is good enough. also record holders of world's oldest living person usually have an article.----153.151.83.197 (talk) 02:15, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
• Delete and redirect per EEng and David in DC's rationales above. I might also suggest that we add one or two-sentence descriptions of the listed persons to the "List of the oldest verified people", thus obviating the perceived need for many of these "oldest person" articles for non-notable subjects. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:04, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
• Strong and Obvious Keep Was the oldest living human in the world as well as the oldest person ever from Puerto Rico at the time of her death. 930310 (talk) 19:08, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Not obvious unless you can show us something that would go in the article to counter the NOPAGE argument. EEng (talk) 20:26, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

• Keep World's oldest person who was covered extensively in world-wide media press. Fiskje88 (talk) 20:05, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
• Keep Ramona Trinidad Iglesias-Jordan has been a notable person not only as the oldest ever verified woman from Puerto Rico, but also as the GWR-verified world's oldest person. The amount of press coverage is here thus not a surprise. Keep beyond reasonable doubt.White Eaglet (talk) 22:50, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
• Comment and Request - @White Eaglet, Fiskje88, 930310, and Inception2010: Please note that there is no such specific notability guideline for "oldest person," and any reliance on such a non-existent guideline or precedent is misplaced. All such "oldest persons" must satisfy the general notability guidelines per WP:GNG, as well as other suitability guidelines such as WP:NOPAGE, in order to have a stand-alone article on Wikipedia. You are respectfully requested to provide links to what each you believe are the three best examples of significant coverage of the subject in independent, reliable sources per GNG, so other editors may evaluate whether such persons are notable. Thank you. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:40, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
• Keep The individual was documented as the "oldest documented person in the world" in an article with the reliable and verifiable sources needed to support the claim of notability. Alansohn (talk) 04:35, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

You seem to think this is WP:A7. AfD isn't about verifiability of "a claim"; it's about SIGCOV, plus justification of a standalone article escaping NOPAGE. Can you speak to that? EEng (talk) 08:11, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

This article has ample coverage and detail about the subject in an article that is the length, size and scope of most of our five million articles. Let me know if you have any further mind-reading regarding my intent or if you have any more acronyms and abbreviations to toss out. Alansohn (talk) 01:27, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Mind-reading wouldn't be necessary if you would express yourself intelligibly. First you talked about "support [for] the claim of notability", which isn't part of the criteria at AfD‍—‌actual notability, not a claim of notability, is what matters here, and that's the SIGCOV issue to which you still haven't spoken. Now you've shifted to talking about "length", "size" (which I guess you distinguish from "length") and "scope", which might be persuasive if the content of this article wasn't largely, as it is, fluff such as

according to documents compiled in March 2004... after the death of Mitoyo Kawate, although German American Charlotte Benkner, who was about 3½ months younger, had been given recognition in the meantime... They were interviewed together in the 1920 United States Census when she was 30... In 1948, her birth certificate was signed at Utuado, certifying that she was born at 7:00 AM on September 1, 1889. However, a baptismal certificate of April 1890 (found in 1992), revealed that she was actually born the day before, on August 31, 1889. The 1910 United States Census recorded her aged 20. Her marriage to Alfonso Soler on December 26, 1912, aged 23 is recorded by certificate on December 28, 1912... The Guinness World Records accepted her claim, documentation meeting their standards, and on March 29, 2004, she received a document from them, declaring her the world's oldest living woman. She joined José Miguel Agrelot, Wilfred Benítez and a handful of others as the only Puerto Ricans to enter that book.

-- none of which tells us anything about her. EEng (talk) 02:05, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

• Keep . I thought we've been through this before. The oldest person ever is notable, period. Consensus can change but not that fast. Bearian (talk) 17:19, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

You keep linking to WP:OUTCOMES. Where in there is anything about oldest people? EEng (talk) 19:57, 17 November 2015 (UTC)