Talk:2016–2017 Kashmir unrest

Response section

I was wondering whether it would be wise to add comments by Indian politicians and them blaming Pakistan for the unrest? many articles suggest that its this attitude of denial of home grown freedom movements which stoke the massacres we see so often in Indian-controlled Kashmir. 141.241.26.20 (talk) 13:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

If you provide a reliable source that says that this "attitude" has stoked anything, we can discuss further. Please keep in mind that there are plenty of reliable sources that document Pakistan's involvement. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:51, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Fahad Shah source

Other reports suggest that issues dating back to 2010 where mass protests lead to many civilian deaths contributed to the current situation. While suggesting that India's continued dealing of the issue as law and order related while ignoring the deep rooted political aspirations of the people as a reason for the unrest and India’s failure to address Kashmir’s political issues coupled with dealing with protesters with deadly force will only continue the cycle of unrest.

References

Could please show me where I have added original research ? did you bother reading the source I provided for the addition I made ? 141.241.26.20 (talk) 15:27, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I have read the article. Please provide a quotation that justifies your content. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:28, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

"India’s reaction to this uprising and many in past has been to blame Pakistan. A minister of the Indian government accused Pakistan of interfering into India’s internal affairs. Kiren Rijiju, the union minister of state for home affairs, said, “[Pakistan] should worry [more] about human rights violations in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir than Jammu and Kashmir. Kashmir is an internal matter of India.” Additional troops were also sent to Kashmir, with New Delhi seeing the problem as a law and order issue, and ignoring the deep rooted political aspirations of the people. In the 2010 uprising, the Indian government sent a three-member team to assess the situation, but their report also didn’t address the deeper political issues.

India’s failure to address Kashmir’s political problem, while people only resorted to peaceful protests, has led to this new anger. This new generation of youth taking to the streets, different than any in past, will be committed to defying restrictions and facing the Indian soldiers’ bullets to make a political statement. Violence begets violence and soon many young boys may be inspired to follow in Wani’s path, seeking to lead Kashmir to a new political reality." 141.241.26.20 (talk) 15:31, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

The first paragraph you quote is not talking about causes of the unrest, whereas your text does. This is WP:SYNTHESIS, a form of WP:OR.

The second paragraph is talking about the causes in a cursory way, but note that it is already covered in my first paragraph, which is based on much more in-depth analytical sources:

Several reasons for this trend have been cited such as the absence of a political dialogue, the lack of economic opportunities, frustration due to high unemployment, excessive militarisation of the public space and repeated human rights violations by the security forces.

I can expand on that further, and probably will. But you definitely need to delete your WP:OR. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Update needed 16 July 2016

[Copied from Talk:Kashmir conflict - Kautilya3 (talk) 00:06, 17 July 2016 (UTC)]

The current death toll in Kashmir is reported to be 41.

I am new here and don't know how to summarize or cite in the proper format. For example, embedded references from Greater Kashmir and Rising Kashmir are included in the article quoted below. Other details were not clearly cited in the article, but are reflected in the websites for Greater Kashmir and Rising Kashmir. Hindustan Times adds a newer detail that the newspaper ban is for 3 days. But the Times of India is outdated by 2 days.

I don't want to take responsibility for summarizing and editing, so the following is a verbatim quote from NDTV: Srinagar: One more person died in firing by security forces after clashes in Kashmir on Saturday, taking the number of deaths in the violence triggered by the killing of terrorist Burhan Wani to 41. Cable TV services were suspended for more than 12 hours and newspapers have alleged a media gag. Here are the top 10 developments in the story:

   One person was killed and two injured after security forces opened fire on a crowd when they attacked a police post in Kupwara district of north Kashmir.
   Small protests were reported in some parts of the Valley but the protesters were chased away by security personnel who resorted to baton charge, an official said.
   Journalists and editors sat on a protest in Srinagar after being told not to publish newspapers by authorities. From tomorrow, newspapers will not be sold on newsstands but online editions will continue, they said.
   Newspapers in Kashmir reported raids by police on their offices, arrest of employees and seizure of printing plates. Greater Kashmir, the largest circulated daily in the Valley, said around 50,000 copies of their newspaper were confiscated today.
   "This is a press emergency in Kashmir. This kind of gag is not the first but this time the government has formally banned us from publishing newspapers. We don't know when it will be lifted," said Shujat Bukhari, editor of Rising Kashmir.
   Senior government sources told NDTV that the gag was ordered because the distribution of the newspapers would mean movement of vehicles in violation of the eight-day long curfew in all 10 districts.
   Cellphone and internet services remained disabled in large parts of Kashmir to prevent the spread of rumours that could provoke violence. All telecom operators had been asked to suspend services yesterday.
   Cable operators said that they had been allowed to restore their services but warned not to carry Pakistani channels. "We have not received anything in writing but we were told to shut the operations. Police didn't given us any reason but we had to follow the order," Rufail Shafi, a cable operator, told NDTV.
   Amarnath Yatra, suspended amid the violence, resumed from Jammu today under tight security.
   More than 2,000 have been injured in violent protests that broke out after the killing of Burhan Wani, poster boy of Kashmir's new-age militancy, last Friday.

Some clarifying facts I am searching for are: how many of the 41 reported dead are authorities, and how many are civilians; and of the civilians, how many are protestors and how many are uninvolved bystanders; similarly, how many of the 2000 reported injured are authorities, and how many are civilians; and of the civilians, how many are protestors and how many are uninvolved bystanders. I am a nuetral foreigner located in Kashmir, currently with access to internet through broadband, but affected by extended curfews and strikes and lack of mobile service. My only access to news now is through neighborhood rumors (of both separatist sentiment and fear-of-separatist sentiment) and online news, so I am eager to see the facts collected here.Nomadshepherdess (talk) 17:43, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

References

No need for list of civilians killed

I wonder for what reason the list of dead civilians has been added. Articles about unrest or any fatal incident don't contain list of killed civilians. These people are not individually notable. As such I don't see any reason to add their names. The list should be removed. Do you agree? 117.214.245.178 (talk) 19:19, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, the list is not encyclopaedic. But I don't mind keeping it around till the situation calms down, as a mark of respect for the dead. The services are shut down in Kashmir right now and people that can get through to us will be able to access the information. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:25, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Non-neutral POV

The editor who created and added a lot of text in this article has been confiremd to be a sockpuppet. He had been repeatedly editing some articles and shaping them according to a POV favourable to Kashmiris. This is also apparent here as the article seems to be favouring Kashmiri POV and is presenting them as victims all the while omitting other viewpoints which might not think so. The article also reads like a newspaper in several places. In fact you can clearly read the article to confirm so. A few examples of the above raised issues are:

• The communal polarisation in India and the violence targeting Muslims are widely discussed in Kashmiri homes.""
• The militant wing (Hizbul Mujahideen) commanded by Burhan Wani has been dubbed "new-age militancy." It has recruited local youth, educated and middle-class, who are conversant with social media and not afraid to reveal their identities. They have achieved an immense popularity among the Kashmiri population. When Waseem Mall and Naseer Ahmad Pandit were killed by security forces, tens of thousands of local Kashmiris came to attend the funeral and the funeral rites had to be repeated six times to allow all the mourners to participate. - Downright unnecessary especially in case of deaths of other militants and also contradictory to facts as Wani wasn't the only leader of Hizbul Mujahideen, the group is even older than him.

• According to a police official, there were misgivings within the security establishment against killing Wani owing to his popularity, but they were not heeded by the authorities. Wani left home to become a militant at age 15 after an an incident with the police that humiliated him. The Kashmiri youth angered by the "never-ending militarisation" of the Valley were drawn to him and his constant presence on the social media made him a household name. - This is under a section called "Operation against Wani", even though it shouldn't be there and is undue especially the last two sentences about Wani leaving home and why the Kashmiri youth were drawn to him which hy the way is a non-neutral POV copied from the source without mentioning the one who said it.

• Protestors have come back to the streets in all parts of the Valley, and demonstrations and stone throwing "have not stopped" since the news of his death. - Reads like a newspaper.

I suggest this article be edited to show a neutral POV and be re-written in a proper Wikipedia style. DinoBambinoNFS (talk) 21:32, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

All the passages you quote are mine, and not of any sockpuppet. Since the article is describing events that are taking shape even as we are writing, it is bound to be a bit like news. I don't see any harm in that. Neither do I see anything wrong with "Kashmiri POV." It is after all their unrest we are talking about. If you have other sources and viewpoints that need to be covered, please feel free to bring them up. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:43, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Ok I didn't know it was you who added it. But regardless POV should remain neutral and shouldn't belong to any one specific group. Besides I didn't say it contains "Kashmiri POV", I said it favours "Kashmiri POV" of the situation. The article seems biased. Also you're reasoning that it's bound to be like news seems unreasonable, it is quite easy to change the language of a sentence at least in this case. The language at several places does not seem in line with Wikipedia standards. DinoBambinoNFS (talk) 22:34, 17 July 2016 (UTC)