Talk:CIA Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory

Fork article w/ CIA Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory

The idea has been introduced (without any discussion here) of moving several sections of this article into a separate article: CIA Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory. For the record I am AGAINST this change. Joegoodfriend (talk) 05:28, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I put it in CIA Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory. If you don't like this entry, perhaps you should think about merging it. Anyways, the reason I had been considering a fork was because I thought the original Kennedy conspiracy article talked too much about the CIA instead of other competing theories. I am personally a fan of the LBJ-Masonic theory, which is barely mentioned in the original article. ADM (talk) 05:19, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

As I wrote above, I am all for a re-write on the CIA-related stuff. That doesn't explain why (1.) you deleted whole sections of the article not on this specific topic and (2.) why you made major revisions to an article on controversial stuff without discussing it first on talk. Thanks. Joegoodfriend (talk) 05:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I added parts about Cuba to the split because they also talk about the CIA. It's possible that the entry was busy and I thought that it was free, without people coming back to check their work. I didn't get the impression that it was under discussion. ADM (talk) 05:28, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess I don't quite get it. You chopped out a lot of "the Three Tramps" even though the text had only the most tenuous connection to the CIA. In any case please DO edit the CIA assassination stuff in this article; what's here is not good. I think your new article may get nominated for deletion pretty quick, but I've wrong before. Joegoodfriend (talk) 05:39, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm over five years late to the party, but I guess I'm in at least partial agreement with Joegoodfriend on this. The theory that Castro and the Cubans killed JFK (i.e. "retaliation theory", which LBJ apparently believed) is not the same as the theory that anti-Castro Cubans working with the CIA killed JFK. In other words, not every mention of the CIA goes in an article about the theory that "the CIA did it". - Location (talk) 04:22, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Undue weight

This article tends to present the conspiracy theory as fact. Conflicts with facts should be noted, and the article as a whole should avoid such a slant. Nick Heer 01:58, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

It reads the opposite way to me. It takes a considerable amount of paragraph's before it even starts to list conspiracy theories. As filler it lists distractions and other theories that don't involve the CIA. There are other articles for that content. Furthermore, where actual facts exists, it blurs them and pushes the content to the bottom of a section rather then simply listing said facts. Other articles on this subject are structured in a much better way.--Senor Freebie (talk) 08:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Nick wants it to be more pro-official theory — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.150.65 (talk) 16:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Rewrite

The grammar and spelling need to be corrected throughout the entirety of this page. There are multiple errors, some changing the intended meaning of sentences —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.12.3.209 (talk) 12:22, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Currently undertaking a good part of the rewrite.

CIA as source

Does this follow WP procedure? That is to directly cite the subject matter? It seems like a bit of a confusing paradox to me.--Senor Freebie (talk) 08:56, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Quote

The article has contained the following quote since it was created:

Kennedy said to his collaborator Clark Clifford, shortly after the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion, "Something very bad is going on within the CIA and I want to know what it is. I want to shred the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the four winds."[2][3][4]

Regarding the sources:

2 is a YouTube clip of a Kennedy speech that does not refer to the quote,

3 does not refer to the first part of the quote, but does cite the 1966 article in The New York Times noted elsewhere in the article for the second part of the quote, and

4 is a dead link that has likely moved here within the official website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Cuba.

None of these sources attribute the quote to Clark Clifford, nor can I find any reliable sources that do so. Given that [2] does not even mention the quote, [3] in and of itself may be judged unreliable, and [4] is obviously biased in this context, I am going to trim the quote and use the NYT article noted within [3]. Location (talk) 04:33, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

I have also fixed the quote to match what the NYT actually wrote. Location (talk) 04:49, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

UFO conspiracy

The material below was removed by BrandonTR with an edit summary stating: "material removed -- WP:FRINGE -- UFO theories are considered fringe and pseudoscience".

According to one UFO-related conspiracy theory, the CIA killed Kennedy in order to prevent him from leaking information to the Soviet Union about a covert program to reverse-engineer alien technology called Majestic 12. (Unformatted reference found here.)

Pseudoscience isn't really relevant since the method of cherry-picking FOIA documents and proclaiming "the CIA did it" isn't unique to the author of this particular theory, but it is certainly "fringe" in the world of JFK assassination conspiracy theories. If a WC critic is OK with its removal, then I am, too. Given that it was originally moved from the "Other published theories" section in John F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories, I'm preserving it here for future reference. Location (talk) 14:56, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

For future reference

• http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/plausible-deniability

- Location (talk) 19:58, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Problems with the CIA

I am removing the section entitled "Problems with the CIA" per WP:SYNTH: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources." It appears as though this section is providing material to substantiate the conspiracy belief that conflicts between the CIA and Kennedy were the impetus for the assassination, and none of the sources for the material make that assertion. The proper way to make this argument is through secondary sources discussing that particular aspect of the conspiracy theory. - Location (talk) 00:19, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Second Oswald Theory

Hi, the text I've added was not without discussion of the editors. See: Talk:John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories#Second_Oswald_Theory. Thanks. Joegoodfriend (talk) 20:26, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

One Sided

This article is hopelessly one sided. It presents virtually no rebuttal to the conspiracy theories and as such violates NPOV, DUE and PROFRINGE. I have tagged it accordingly. These tags should not be removed w/o consensus that these issues have been resolved. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:16, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I don't doubt that there would be strong objection to this, but my suggestion is to remove anything cited to a fringe source. A fringe source or fringe theory should really only be mentioned to the extent that it is discussed in reliable secondary sources. The alternative to this is that we have claims by conspiracy theorists refuted by primary source material in the name of WP:PARITY.

Any other suggestions? -Location (talk) 15:05, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Notice

This article is being discussed here:

Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#CIA_Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theory

--David Tornheim (talk) 14:48, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Cuban exiles

I have removed this section per this edit. This article is supposed to be about Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories involving the CIA, and the references cited do not refer to CIA involvement with Cuban exiles in the assassination of Kennedy. -Location (talk) 15:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Good edit, keep up the good work! Joegoodfriend (talk) 16:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Organized crime and the CIA conspiracy

I have removed a paragraph from this section with this edit. This article is supposed to be about Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories involving the CIA, and the references cited in this paragraph do not refer to CIA involvement with the mafia in the assassination of Kennedy. -Location (talk) 15:54, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Good edit, keep up the good work! Joegoodfriend (talk) 16:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Attribution

Copied text & references from E. Howard Hunt to CIA Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory See former article's history for list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:29, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

• erm... why? —usernamekiran[talk] 17:38, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Because it is part of the CIA picture, and a relevant piece at that. And because attribution is required for copying within wikipedia. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:59, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

• I'm aware about copying within wikipedia lol. :) I meant, why the text needed to be copied? —usernamekiran[talk] 18:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

And I answered both questions. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:12, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

His recorded statement to his son that he was present for "the big event" is notable. Of course, this whole episode is a mess. The source of one shot was a mystery, until I saw the forensic report implicating an accidental{(?) firing of a secret service agent's AR15. Which explained at least some of the mystery bullet, etc. not to mention the president's 'lost' brain. And the lost photos of the Bethesda autopsy. And I have always found it significant that Oswald was hired at the Texas School Book Depository shortly before the assassination, and before the parade route was made public. But that is grist for several other wikipedia articles. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:43, 20 April 2017 (UTC)