Talk:Transgender

"Transsexual" sentence at the top of the article is extremely simplistic and contradictory

The definition and history of the word "transsexual" and its relationship to "transgender" is long and convoluted, and the sentence "transgender people are sometimes called transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another" is an absurd oversimplification. It's contradicted multiple times in the article as well as the transsexual article itself. I suggest its deletion.

I added a Citation Needed to it, but I think it should be taken out altogether, as multiple sources can be cited both for it and against it, based on many different definitions.

In my personal experience, I've found that every trans person I've met has understood "transsexual" to simply be an outdated and archaic synonym for "transgender", but obviously that's not relevant to the article's content.

Trebuchette (talk) 05:58, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

That transsexual is considered outdated and/or is rejected by many transgender people today is, as you know, covered in the "Transsexual and its relationship to transgender" section. And it's covered in the "Relationship of transsexual to transgender" section in the Transsexual article. Both articles also note that there are transgender people who still use and prefer the term transsexual. In this case, and as noted by medical sources, the term refers to transgender people who have undergone sex reassignment therapy, and (according to some sources) especially those who have undergone sex reassignment surgery as part of that therapy. Per WP:Lead, which notes that the lead is meant to summarize the article, this is something that should be mentioned in the lead, whether we tweak the sentence or not. Both the Transgender and Transsexual articles are also better off with the sections about the terms' relationship to each other. I don't see that noting how the term transsexual is sometimes used is contradictory. And the lead does state "sometimes called." Terms obviously are not always used consistently. Some transgender people embrace the term transvestite, while many or most other transgender people do not. It doesn't negate the fact that transvestite is commonly considered a derogatory and outdated term today. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 12:10, 13 February 2019 (UTC) Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 12:19, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

@Trebuchette:Chiming in to agree with Flyer. Want to add though you may be correct that the sentence "transgender people are sometimes called transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another" is oversimplifying things. The issue is, you are using your own personal experience to explain why it is an oversimplification. Wikipedia editors are mainly supposed to use reliable secondary sources to determine how wikipedia articles should be written. You can read more about what secondary sources are at WP:RS. Hope that's helpful and you enjoy editing wikipedia. Rab V (talk) 07:59, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

PS you mentioned multiple sources could contradict the statement you were concerned; if they look like reliable secondary sources, maybe link and quote them in this discussion and we could work on it. Rab V (talk) 08:03, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

The sentence currently states, "Some transgender people identify as transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another." And it's sourced. It focuses on identity rather than on transgender people sometimes being called transsexual, which is probably better considering that the term transsexual isn't as widespread today as it used to be. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:57, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Request for Comment - Crediting the Wachowskis

How should the Wachowskis be credited in articles about films/media they worked on before they came out as women? "The Wachowskis" or "The Wachowski Brothers"? You can comment or vote here:

Talk:The_Matrix_(franchise)#Request_for_Comment_-_Crediting_The_Wachowskis

Any input would be greatly appreciated! WanderingWanda (talk) 05:35, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Just a few days left on this RfC and opinions remain sharply divided. Have any insight into this issue or good conflict resolution skills? Your input could be very valuable. WanderingWanda (talk) 05:57, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

point readers to a wide interpretation of "transgender"

A little while ago I added a sentence with links, to suggest the limitations of this article and point readers elsewhere, giving them terms they might not have known. Under the proposed definition of "cross-dresser" which includes A but excludes B and C, I added:

(It also excludes those people who, throughout history, adopted a gender disguise in order to do things forbidden to their sex, for example attending higher education or going to war.)

This was removed with the comment "And yet that Wikipedia article is titled List of wartime cross-dressers. Needs better implementation if this is to stay." I'm not fussed about the wording, but I think we do readers (who may know almost nothing about the subject before coming to this article) a disservice if we don't delineate these different categories. Transgender is an umbrella term, and as such should link out as much as possible, to be as clear as we can be on what is and is not included in the meaning. I'd like to reinstate some version of this. Any thoughts? --Carbon Caryatid (talk) 03:00, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are arguing. What you added was unsourced, and those people you excluded as cross-dressers are listed as cross-dressers in the List of wartime cross-dressers article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 12:21, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

New gender identity page

A new gender identity subpage has been added to the Manual of Style:

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Gender identity (shortcut: MOS:IDINFO).

Discussion about this new section, and about Wikipedia's gender identity guidelines in general, is taking place on its talk page:

Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Gender identity.

WanderingWanda (they/them) (t/c) 16:12, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Requested move

A discussion on whether Cis and Trans should redirect to Cisgender and Transgender:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Trans#Requested_move_4_May_2019

WanderingWanda (they/them) (t/c) 10:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Requested Move: Genderqueer → Non-binary

Hi everyone! Your considered input is requested here:

Talk:Genderqueer#Requested_move_1_May_2019

This is a contentious discussion that could really use more participation. Anyone with expertise in gender identity topics or with good conflict resolution skills are especially encouraged to particpate. Thank you! WanderingWanda (talk)