Talk:Home Army

Usually Poles took money or goods for this,

Please define "Poles" - you probably mean ethnic Poles. Do your sources confirm the ethnicity of the forgers?

If you write about an organization, the membership is crucial, not the ethnicity. By the way, the Home Army had Jewish members. Xx236 (talk) 06:18, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

That's a quote from a source, not our wording. François Robere (talk) 09:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Bigotry and poor sourcing

I am undoing Piotrus' edit, as it introduced bigoted language. If we say Ukrainian fighters murdered Polish civilians, then we should say the same of the Home Army murdering Ukrainian civilians. If we say kill, both should be kill. But saying Polish Home Army killed or pacified civilians, but Ukrainians murdered is bigoted. Piotrus also introduced several horrendous a-historical sources that glorify supposed Polish heroism. www.polishresistance-ak.org for example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoeZ451 (talk • contribs) 15:01, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Source review

This article needs many better sources. Let's consider some that have recently been removed (and readded):

1. [1] - non-peer reviewed but published by a reliable scholar (Anna M. Cienciala)
2. [2] 2004 article in maisntream Polish newspaper Rzeczpospolita (newspaper) attributed to Andrzej Kaczynski (I can't find much info about him)

Those are IMHO passable. Should be replaced with higher quality sources, but they have either a reliable author or publisher.

1. [3] Anonymous publication on a blog

I support removal of this as clearly failing RS. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:44, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Course notes that cite Wikipedia itself? Really? That's your source here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoeZ451 (talk • contribs) 05:59, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Neither course notes nor newspapers are enough for this subject (see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Antisemitism in Poland#Article sourcing expectations). This is well-researched - there ought to be peer-reviewed or other high-quality scholarly sources available. François Robere (talk) 13:37, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

I do recall you used newspaper as a source yourself, and quite recently too. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:26, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

On current affairs, in an article 85% of which is on events from 2018 onwards. François Robere (talk) 14:10, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Let's discuss this source: lecture notes by historian Anna M. Cienciala available at [4]. The author is a respected academic. The notes are effectively self-published, but are cited by many other scholars ([5]) and even positively reviewed "I was pleased that she mentioned Sarmatian Review in her excellent compendium of works on the history of Poland and Eastern Europe available online (http://acienciala.faculty.ku.edu/hist557/bibpt1rev.htm)." While I would say that such a source should not be used for WP:REDFLAG, I think it is entirely acceptable in regular circumstances, and its use here didn't raise any red flags, did it? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:14, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

I read link you give. It is an obiturary by a friend in the Polish review. The friend is happy her work on Poland is listed in Cienciala's bibliography. The link Cienciala's friend calls excellent is the bibliography, not lecture 16 you used. You want we use sources sympathetic to Ukraine in this page? I can find. They tell story of Home Army differently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoeZ451 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

November 2019 edit

Preserving here by providing this link; my rationale was "poorly-sourced WP:EXTRAORDINARY claims". --K.e.coffman (talk) 21:45, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree. This is an extraordinary claim and Wikipedia should not use Polish schoolbooks parroting Home Army veterans. Actual historians: "As Marcin Zaremba and other historians have pointed out, Poles killed more Jews than they did Germans during the occupation"[6]. Official German records from the Generalgouvernement show 1,300 Germans killed between 1939 and 1944, and another 2,000 to 9,000 in the August 1944 uprising.[7] — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoeZ451 (talk • contribs) 15:58, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

JoeZ451, you removed sourced content--Seedsdough (talk) 23:00, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

It's not a Polish schoolbook, and if you are trusting Nazi German sources more, then we do have a problem. Also, can you tell us, Joe, what was your previous account name before you created this one? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:31, 6 December 2019 (UTC)