Talk:Rapping

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2020

In the proto-rap section, in the second to last paragraph, in the last line, it would be helpful if "B-boying" hyperlinked to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakdancing. 50.59.52.2 (talk) 10:20, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

That seems like a good edit, if not already linked in the article. I'll make. --FeldBum (talk) 12:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

That link already exists in the lede, so didn't add a second time, but I did define in proto-rap. --FeldBum (talk) 12:25, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Street poet/poetry

Street poet and Street poetry should redirect here, and be covered in the lead. They're certainly more common in reliable sources than, say, "spittin[g]". These terms generally seem to always refer to rap and heavily rap-influenced poetry, and some rappers have preferred these terms to "rap" and "rappin[g]" (e.g. Danny Rodriguez and possibly Big Brown (poet)). I've redirected both terms here, but we'll need material added to the article to support it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:35, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

PS: The history section may need tweaking to account for the influence of Big Brown and others, who were already sometimes called street poets, on the development of rap. This article doesn't even mention Brown, but our article on him says he was influential on rap and hip-hop. So, we need to get the story straight. Contradictions across articles are not a good thing.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:51, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Hiphop and Disco are deeply intertwined

I'm strongly opposed to this part:

"With the decline of disco in the early 1980s rap became a new form of expression. Rap arose from musical experimentation with rhyming, rhythmic speech. Rap was a departure from disco. Sherley Anne Williams refers to the development of rap as "anti-Disco" in style and means of reproduction. The early productions of Rap after Disco sought a more simplified manner of producing the tracks they were to sing over. Williams explains how Rap composers and DJ's opposed the heavily orchestrated and ritzy multi-tracks of Disco for "break beats" which were created from compiling different records from numerous genres and did not require the equipment from professional recording studios. Professional studios were not necessary therefore opening the production of rap to the youth who as Williams explains felt "locked out" because of the capital needed to produce Disco records.[30]"Hi

In the 1970's, disco producers deliberately made their records for hiphop artists, with things like longer pauses between the main song parts and the instrumental breaks, to make it easier to pin the needle to the right place. And that disco tracks were "high production" was perfect. Just like "No uzis [are] made in Harlem" (sampled om Immortal Technique's "Peruvian Cocaine"), eventhough the large majority carried a gun; in the same way, not many people had access to a recording studio, but as long as they had a record- or tape player / boombox, and with a real record for a couple of $, or a bootleg / radio-recorded tape, they could have high quality instrumentation to their flows. Even, to this day, high rep DJs sample records from the 1970s. They dig through thousand upon thousand of LPs, to find a unique disco-beat. Without disco, no hiphop - it's the natural progression, from one style, to the next.

Also, you're basically demeaning hiphop as "dumb", just like you did before with blacks. For once, take a look at Grandmaster Flash's or DJ Shadows' works, to see the genius that is sampling; the latter is even in the guiness book of world records. The style of Hiphop was a revolution - and democratization - in music making, and it's only evolved from there, in *any genre*; with the DAW Ableton Live being specifically catered towards DJs - and the fact you can now buy a high quality mic for a hundred bucks, a laptop for a couple of more, and you've got yourself a proper studio, which in many ways rivals the quality what you got with even a 1970's state-of-the-art production-company's gear, which took up several rooms of space - which can now be fit in a backpack.

{Tomas Emma (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2020 (UTC)}

Bad article

The noun "rap" in modern American English can denote 1) a criminal charge or 2) blame, 3) a prison sentence, 4) a clever improvised speech (black coinage, adopted and popularized by hippies), 5) an unstructured discussion, 6) a manner of expression, 7) a tiny amount, and 8) the musical genre. (Dalzell) The verb "rap" can signify 1) to strike and 2) to snatch away (Webster), in modern American English also 3) to talk aimlessly and 4) to criticize or accuse someone. Therefore the meaning of Isaac Haye's "rap" has little to do with the modern musical genre, because it precedes it. The first "rap" track is either Fatback Band's "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" or Sugarhill Gang's "Rapper's Delight" of 1979. If you also count spoken word/poetry as "rap", then the Last Poets and Gil Scott-Heron's "Small Talk at 125th and Lenox" (1970) would be among the earliest records. --83.137.6.234 (talk) 05:52, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

The supposed African origin of rap (a pan-African idea worthy of Cheik Anta Diop) is unlikely, because English American slaveowners generally suppressed the African culture and music of their slaves, and rather tried to convert them to puritan Christians (think of gospel singing). The earliest American English black music (blues) dates to the beginning of the 20th century. In contrast, Latin American slaves from Africa had adopted the Spanish and Portuguese string instruments and melodies with their chanting and percussion, and the prolific genres of samba, rumba and son were created (including Shango, Yemaya and all that stuff missing in American English black culture). The roots of rap (or spoken poetry) are probably found in the declamatory readings of religious texts, like the Arabic verb qara'a (to read) which is embodied in the word Quran ("lecture"). This is related to the Nation of Islam aka Black Power Movement. --83.137.6.228 (talk) 23:25, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I have changed the lede. As hip hop article notes, the New York scene where modern rap/hip hop came from was very multicultural so it is hard to pin down exactly where the genre came from. It does appear contemporary genres like funk and disco and Afro-Carribean DJs were particularly important. The lede gave too much weight to distant African influences while not actually explaining how rapping came from the role of the "MC". Anywikiuser (talk) 11:20, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

make page: science rap

• Christopher Emdin