Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 July 2

July 2

Eisenbahnen und Verkehrsbetriebe Elbe-Weser templates

• Template:EVB color (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:EVB lines (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:EVB stations (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

{{s-line}} templates for Eisenbahnen und Verkehrsbetriebe Elbe-Weser. Replaced by Module:Adjacent stations/EVB. All transclusions replaced. There are 2 dependent s-line data modules that should also be deleted. Mackensen (talk) 22:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Template:MRT route

• Template:MRT route (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused, and doesn't seem to serve any useful purpose. AlgaeGraphix (talk) 20:36, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Support since all subpages under has already been moved - oahiyeel ^talk 03:55, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Hamburg S-Bahn templates

• Template:HVV color (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:HVV lines (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:HVV stations (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

{{s-line}} templates for the Hamburg S-Bahn. Replaced by Module:Adjacent stations/Hamburg S-Bahn. All transclusions replaced. There are twelve dependent s-line data modules that should also be deleted. Mackensen (talk) 12:02, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Template:Contra chronology

• Template:Contra chronology (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I am nominating this template for deletion along with all others within Category:Video game fictional chronology templates. Three major reasons.

• (A) These templates conflict with the real world tone of Wikipedia. In the video game project, we have made great strides in recent years to reduce the focus on fictional details (characters, plots) and emphasize real world information (development, reception). (WP:VGSCOPE #5)
• (B) I am not confident each chronology can be properly verified, and may include headcanon interpretations. Take for instance Template:Metal Gear chronology which has a long explanation on which media to include, and which to omit. (WP:VERIFY)
• (C) Some of these are not plot-centric franchises, like Metroid or Contra. Sources do not often discuss the "series story" for these franchises. Efforts to link them in some massive chronology was never the intent, and was done after the fact by the developers to appease obsessive fans. (WP:UNDUE)

In short, this content is better left for fanwikis. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is a not a fan site and there already exists a navbox for this video game series. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep From readers' view. Video game's plot and timeline are some importamt part. People look up it on wikipedia always want to know plot clearly. So when we could just search wikipedia for it easily, why must delete them and force readers to look up on other site, it's unnecessary make matters complicated. Wikipedia should help readers find what they want to know easily, not focus on forms. And we don't know what's problem with chronology template, it's not some over detailed plot or something, doesn't change overall overall neatly format or something.--SimonWan00 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. The reasons given by the nominator do not justify the deletion of the template. The template serves to place the reader, in a didactic way, the chronology of the plot. In fact, the template is very important to bring complete information related to the game. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 14:45, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Template:Deus Ex chronology

• Template:Deus Ex chronology (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I am nominating this template for deletion along with all others within Category:Video game fictional chronology templates. Three major reasons.

• (A) These templates conflict with the real world tone of Wikipedia. In the video game project, we have made great strides in recent years to reduce the focus on fictional details (characters, plots) and emphasize real world information (development, reception). (WP:VGSCOPE #5)
• (B) I am not confident each chronology can be properly verified, and may include headcanon interpretations. Take for instance Template:Metal Gear chronology which has a long explanation on which media to include, and which to omit. (WP:VERIFY)
• (C) Some of these are not plot-centric franchises, like Metroid or Contra. Sources do not often discuss the "series story" for these franchises. Efforts to link them in some massive chronology was never the intent, and was done after the fact by the developers to appease obsessive fans. (WP:UNDUE)

In short, this content is better left for fanwikis. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is a not a fan site and there already exists a navbox for this video game series. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep From readers' view. Video game's plot and timeline are some importamt part. People look up it on wikipedia always want to know plot clearly. So when we could just search wikipedia for it easily, why must delete them and force readers to look up on other site, it's unnecessary make matters complicated. Wikipedia should help readers find what they want to know easily, not focus on forms. And we don't know what's problem with chronology template, it's not some over detailed plot or something, doesn't change overall overall neatly format or something.--SimonWan00 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. The reasons given by the nominator do not justify the deletion of the template. The template serves to place the reader, in a didactic way, the chronology of the plot. In fact, the template is very important to bring complete information related to the game. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 02:16, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Template:Devil May Cry chronology

• Template:Devil May Cry chronology (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I am nominating this template for deletion along with all others within Category:Video game fictional chronology templates. Three major reasons.

• (A) These templates conflict with the real world tone of Wikipedia. In the video game project, we have made great strides in recent years to reduce the focus on fictional details (characters, plots) and emphasize real world information (development, reception). (WP:VGSCOPE #5)
• (B) I am not confident each chronology can be properly verified, and may include headcanon interpretations. Take for instance Template:Metal Gear chronology which has a long explanation on which media to include, and which to omit. (WP:VERIFY)
• (C) Some of these are not plot-centric franchises, like Metroid or Contra. Sources do not often discuss the "series story" for these franchises. Efforts to link them in some massive chronology was never the intent, and was done after the fact by the developers to appease obsessive fans. (WP:UNDUE)

In short, this content is better left for fanwikis. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is a not a fan site and there already exists a navbox for this video game series. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep From readers' view. Video game's plot and timeline are some importamt part. People look up it on wikipedia always want to know plot clearly. So when we could just search wikipedia for it easily, why must delete them and force readers to look up on other site, it's unnecessary make matters complicated. Wikipedia should help readers find what they want to know easily, not focus on forms. And we don't know what's problem with chronology template, it's not some over detailed plot or something, doesn't change overall overall neatly format or something.--SimonWan00 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. The reasons given by the nominator do not justify the deletion of the template. The template serves to place the reader, in a didactic way, the chronology of the plot. In fact, the template is very important to bring complete information related to the game. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 02:16, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Template:Final Fantasy VII chronology

• Template:Final Fantasy VII chronology (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I am nominating this template for deletion along with all others within Category:Video game fictional chronology templates. Three major reasons.

• (A) These templates conflict with the real world tone of Wikipedia. In the video game project, we have made great strides in recent years to reduce the focus on fictional details (characters, plots) and emphasize real world information (development, reception). (WP:VGSCOPE #5)
• (B) I am not confident each chronology can be properly verified, and may include headcanon interpretations. Take for instance Template:Metal Gear chronology which has a long explanation on which media to include, and which to omit. (WP:VERIFY)
• (C) Some of these are not plot-centric franchises, like Metroid or Contra. Sources do not often discuss the "series story" for these franchises. Efforts to link them in some massive chronology was never the intent, and was done after the fact by the developers to appease obsessive fans. (WP:UNDUE)

In short, this content is better left for fanwikis. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is a not a fan site and there already exists a navbox for this video game series. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep From readers' view. Video game's plot and timeline are some importamt part. People look up it on wikipedia always want to know plot clearly. So when we could just search wikipedia for it easily, why must delete them and force readers to look up on other site, it's unnecessary make matters complicated. Wikipedia should help readers find what they want to know easily, not focus on forms. And we don't know what's problem with chronology template, it's not some over detailed plot or something, doesn't change overall overall neatly format or something.--SimonWan00 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. The reasons given by the nominator do not justify the deletion of the template. The template serves to place the reader, in a didactic way, the chronology of the plot. In fact, the template is very important to bring complete information related to the game. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 02:16, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Template:Kingdom Hearts chronology

• Template:Kingdom Hearts chronology (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I am nominating this template for deletion along with all others within Category:Video game fictional chronology templates. Three major reasons.

• (A) These templates conflict with the real world tone of Wikipedia. In the video game project, we have made great strides in recent years to reduce the focus on fictional details (characters, plots) and emphasize real world information (development, reception). (WP:VGSCOPE #5)
• (B) I am not confident each chronology can be properly verified, and may include headcanon interpretations. Take for instance Template:Metal Gear chronology which has a long explanation on which media to include, and which to omit. (WP:VERIFY)
• (C) Some of these are not plot-centric franchises, like Metroid or Contra. Sources do not often discuss the "series story" for these franchises. Efforts to link them in some massive chronology was never the intent, and was done after the fact by the developers to appease obsessive fans. (WP:UNDUE)

In short, this content is better left for fanwikis. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Keep: Plot/narrative order is a big component of the Kingdom Hearts series, and each of the titles are sourced within the various articles to support this order. And as the plot of this series can be a bit confusing, for both new and experienced players of the series, this simple template is a helpful aid on the relevant game articles. I also take concern with the nominators blanket assumption for these templates when their points do not necessarily apply to this template to justify a deletion nomination. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 13:45, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
  • I would also like to add, per Masem's comments below in the discussion about the Metroid template, the Kingdom Hearts series's timeline has been discussed by secondary sourcing (here are two after a quick search: [1] and [2]), and unlike WikiCleanerMan's comment below, the Kingdom Hearts navbox covers release order, for which the games do not correlate simply as other series where a sequel simply continues on from the previous game. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:14, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Chronology in this case is not notable. These templates are in the realm of fandom. The articles you provided is not justification for keeping. It is a matter of opinion from a pop culture stance. Wikipedia is not a place for pop culutre point of views. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:27, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

For Kingdom Hearts, I disagree with that assessment. The existing navbox of the series, or even Kingdom Hearts#Games and the release timeline template there, will not convey to a reader that this series does not follow a simple, linear progression from one title to the next. This chronology template isn't in the realm of fandom, someone didn't just throw the list together without care. Your argument appears to simply be that this was created without sourcing to back it up based on some fan's opinion on the matter; that is not the case at all. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:04, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is a not a fan site and there already exists a navbox for this video game series. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep From readers' view. Video game's plot and timeline are some importamt part. People look up it on wikipedia always want to know plot clearly. So when we could just search wikipedia for it easily, why must delete them and force readers to look up on other site, it's unnecessary make matters complicated. Wikipedia should help readers find what they want to know easily, not focus on forms. And we don't know what's problem with chronology template, it's not some over detailed plot or something, doesn't change overall overall neatly format or something.--SimonWan00 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. The reasons given by the nominator do not justify the deletion of the template. The template serves to place the reader, in a didactic way, the chronology of the plot. In fact, the template is very important to bring complete information related to the game. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 02:16, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Template:Metal Gear chronology

• Template:Metal Gear chronology (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I am nominating this template for deletion along with all others within Category:Video game fictional chronology templates. Three major reasons.

• (A) These templates conflict with the real world tone of Wikipedia. In the video game project, we have made great strides in recent years to reduce the focus on fictional details (characters, plots) and emphasize real world information (development, reception). (WP:VGSCOPE #5)
• (B) I am not confident each chronology can be properly verified, and may include headcanon interpretations. Take for instance Template:Metal Gear chronology which has a long explanation on which media to include, and which to omit. (WP:VERIFY)
• (C) Some of these are not plot-centric franchises, like Metroid or Contra. Sources do not often discuss the "series story" for these franchises. Efforts to link them in some massive chronology was never the intent, and was done after the fact by the developers to appease obsessive fans. (WP:UNDUE)

In short, this content is better left for fanwikis. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:57, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is a not a fan site and there already exists a navbox for this video game series. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep From readers' view. Video game's plot and timeline are some importamt part. People look up it on wikipedia always want to know plot clearly. So when we could just search wikipedia for it easily, why must delete them and force readers to look up on other site, it's unnecessary make matters complicated. Wikipedia should help readers find what they want to know easily, not focus on forms. And we don't know what's problem with chronology template, it's not some over detailed plot or something, doesn't change overall overall neatly format or something.--SimonWan00 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep Metal Gear (and Metal Gear Solid) is a franchise notable for its complicated plot, spanning several games non-linearly. It is, for example, featured first in this article about complicated video game storylines. This chronology helps illustrate that fact and contrast it to the real-world release timeline of the games as a relevant facet of the work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unicodepepper (talk • contribs) 01:47, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. The reasons given by the nominator do not justify the deletion of the template. The template serves to place the reader, in a didactic way, the chronology of the plot. In fact, the template is very important to bring complete information related to the game. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 02:15, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. Metal Gear has a complicated plot that is difficult to keep track of, which is the main reason this template should be kept. Cleanup on the Metal Gear template page in particular can be performed if it is not as neat as the nominator would like. Furthermore, dates in Metal Gear are easily verified. If the nominator considers any piece of the Metal Gear chronology as "headcanon", then they should not edit Metal Gear articles. Keeping the templates readable and neat is one thing, but deletion based on lack of familiarity with the material is laughable.

Template:Metroid chronology

• Template:Metroid chronology (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I am nominating this template for deletion along with all others within Category:Video game fictional chronology templates. Three major reasons.

• (A) These templates conflict with the real world tone of Wikipedia. In the video game project, we have made great strides in recent years to reduce the focus on fictional details (characters, plots) and emphasize real world information (development, reception). (WP:VGSCOPE #5)
• (B) I am not confident each chronology can be properly verified, and may include headcanon interpretations. Take for instance Template:Metal Gear chronology which has a long explanation on which media to include, and which to omit. (WP:VERIFY)
• (C) Some of these are not plot-centric franchises, like Metroid or Contra. Sources do not often discuss the "series story" for these franchises. Efforts to link them in some massive chronology was never the intent, and was done after the fact by the developers to appease obsessive fans. (WP:UNDUE)

In short, this content is better left for fanwikis. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:57, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is a not a fan site and there already exists a navbox for this video game series. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep From readers' view. Video game's plot and timeline are some importamt part. People look up it on wikipedia always want to know plot clearly. So when we could just search wikipedia for it easily, why must delete them and force readers to look up on other site, it's unnecessary make matters complicated. Wikipedia should help readers find what they want to know easily, not focus on forms. And we don't know what's problem with chronology template, it's not some over detailed plot or something, doesn't change overall overall neatly format or something.--SimonWan00 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

• Keep The narrative timeline of the Metroid games has been one of the few VG series - like Zelda - that has been the subject of secondary sourcing, see for example [3] and [4]. Normally, yes, these narrative timeline templates border both on OR and fandom, but Metroid's is unusual because it has this type of coverage. --Masem (t) 19:40, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
  • To stress, these are discussing the timeline as as whole (up to the time of press), and not trying to piecemeal multiple timeline pieces together. If we only had pieceparts of the timeline from various sources, and "assembling" them to make a whole one, that would start to venture into SYNTH. --Masem (t) 19:44, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. The reasons given by the nominator do not justify the deletion of the template. The template serves to place the reader, in a didactic way, the chronology of the plot. In fact, the template is very important to bring complete information related to the game. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 02:13, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. While Metroid's chronology from game to game is not as in-depth as Metal Gear's, the idea that the navbox is a acceptable alternative is flippant, as the games are only listed in release order. There is a place on Wikipedia for quick, glanceable information that newcomers can use to confirm which games take place before others. Was Super Metroid titled "Metroid 4" before the start screen in order to "appease obsessive fans"? Clearly, the developers are following a basic narrative structure, and articles can be cited verifying each game's place in the timeline. Video games do not need sweeping overarching plots across titles for chronology to be relevant, and the attempt to argue otherwise is pure conjecture.

Template:Centennial Broadcasting

• Template:Centennial Broadcasting (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template with three entries. Centennial is slowly selling off their stations. Three entries is not enough to justify a template. I created this template, so I am nom'ing it for deletion. Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:06, 2 July 2021 (UTC) 01:06, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per G7 as creator is requesting it. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Too few entries for navigation. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:46, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Misplaced !votes

Keep From readers' view. Video game's plot and timeline are some importamt part. People look up it on wikipedia always want to know plot clearly. So when we could just search wikipedia for it easily, why must delete them and force readers to look up on other site, it's unnecessary make matters complicated. Wikipedia should help readers find what they want to know easily, not focus on forms. And we don't know what's problem with chronology template, it's not some over detailed plot or something, doesn't change overall overall neatly format or something.--SimonWan00 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC) SimonWan00, wrong Tfd. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 13:41, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Keep. The reasons given by the nominator do not justify the deletion of the template. The template serves to place the reader, in a didactic way, the chronology of the plot. In fact, the template is very important to bring complete information related to the game. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 02:16, 5 July 2021 (UTC)