Talk:Voyage (ABBA album): Difference between revisions
Line 107: | Line 107: | ||
::You ask: "Where on Earth are you getting the idea...?" What? Read again. I say exactly the opposite: "defining what makes a 'single' by chart performance isn't very sensible these days". |
::You ask: "Where on Earth are you getting the idea...?" What? Read again. I say exactly the opposite: "defining what makes a 'single' by chart performance isn't very sensible these days". |
||
::I did not place this thread where it is. The heading was already there, without any content below it. [[User:Jopla2|Jopla2]] ([[User talk:Jopla2|talk]]) 19:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC) |
::I did not place this thread where it is. The heading was already there, without any content below it. [[User:Jopla2|Jopla2]] ([[User talk:Jopla2|talk]]) 19:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC) |
||
"Faith" and "Shut" were released as two separate singles, not as a double A side They each have their own physical releases, their own catalogue numbers, and reached different chart positions. Just because they were released on the same day does not mean they were a double A-side. Nor does the way Spotify promoted them. Spotify is ONE streaming service, not the entire music industry. On Amazon, for example, they were available to download separately and you paid for each song. "Notion" was therefore the third single, and "Little Things" will be the fourth. [[Special:Contributions/213.205.240.130|213.205.240.130]] ([[User talk:213.205.240.130|talk]]) 02:28, 17 November 2021 (UTC) |
Revision as of 02:28, 17 November 2021
{{WikiProject banner shell}}
to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.![]() | Albums Start‑class | ||||||
|
{{WikiProject banner shell}}
to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.![]() | Pop music Start‑class | |||||||||
|
'Just A Notion' ABBA Single On Friday 22nd October 2021
'Just A Notion' will be the 3rd ABBA Single, from 'Voyage', on Friday 22nd October. It is much more lively than the 1978 Original. The 1978 Song, has been given more power and strength. That goes for both the Vocals, and the Instrumentation. Most of all it has a great sense of 'Fun' around it. It is ABBA at their best. 09:24, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
"Just a notion" and "Bumblebee"
The songs "Just a notion" and "Bumblebee" are mentioned in the track list, but as they have not have been commented, released or played in any form to the public, the fact that they are complete versions of the unfinished songs published in the box set Thank you for the music is just a matter of speculation. No source for this is mentioned in the text. Alejandroflopez (talk) 17:39, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
'Just A Notion' and 'Bumblebee'
We, (ABBA Fans), have now been told, that the 'Voyage' Track - 'Bumblebee' - is not the 1978 Demo 'Free As A Bumblebee'. The 'Bumblebee' Song, is a 100% brand New Benny and Bjorn Song. Also, 'Just A Notion' has now been given a totally New Backing Track. So, it does not sound completely the same, as the 1978 Original version. Some ABBA Fans have been speculating, if there are any Instrumental Tracks, on 'Voyage'. With 'Ode To Freedom' being 'guessed' to be an Instrumental. It is not. The 'Voyage' Album contains no Instrumentals. All 10 Tracks have Vocals. 81.103.92.196 (talk) 17:03, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
Japanese Edition
Too much focus.
Why give tracklisting for Gold Greatest Hits? Simply say Japanese versions include one with the GOLD album. Coachtripfan (talk) 08:08, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- Given that track listing without an explanation is highly confusing if not misleading. It seems rather apparent that the Japenese edition is not the new album, but something different sold under the same name. Which actually might suggest it doesn't belong in this article on the album in the first place and certainly not without an explanation (not to mention that sourcing via Amazon isn't really up to sourcing standards either).--Kmhkmh (talk) 06:39, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
- @Kmhkmh: Although I was not the editor who added these extra track listings in the first place and am not particularly fussed about them being present, it really was not confusing whatsoever—the headlines of these extra track listings were clearly marked "disc 2" and so on. It's a well-established practice in the music market, not just in Japan, to tack on extra discs including an artist's greatest hits with their new album. One version sold in Japan includes the ABBA Gold album, another Japanese version includes The Definitive Collection DVD and so on. It was not "something different sold under the same name". Also, technically, per MOS:ALBUM the extra discs don't even need sources—the liner notes/album itself is considered the source. Ss112 08:22, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
- It might be to the normal reader (at least it was for me), who cannot be expected to know what might be common in Japan or with some labels. To me for instance it was at first glance not clear, that disc 1 was always supposed to be the original voxyage album, although I see your point that is clear if you rtake a closer look.
- There is nothing wrong with pointing out, that in Japan the new album is bundled with additional discs, but we don't need the track listing for those additional discs (in this article). The track listing in this article imho should belong to this album and not various repackaging versions.--Kmhkmh (talk) 10:28, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
- @Kmhkmh: Although I was not the editor who added these extra track listings in the first place and am not particularly fussed about them being present, it really was not confusing whatsoever—the headlines of these extra track listings were clearly marked "disc 2" and so on. It's a well-established practice in the music market, not just in Japan, to tack on extra discs including an artist's greatest hits with their new album. One version sold in Japan includes the ABBA Gold album, another Japanese version includes The Definitive Collection DVD and so on. It was not "something different sold under the same name". Also, technically, per MOS:ALBUM the extra discs don't even need sources—the liner notes/album itself is considered the source. Ss112 08:22, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Timings
These have appeared on various Abba fan sites. Gossip and speculation.
The tracklisting times have NOT been confirmed by any authoritative source. Apart from the 2 singles obviously. Coachtripfan (talk) 08:10, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
Pre Order
Where is the claim for 111,000 UK Pre order sales? Not in the link.
The author of this topic is clueless Coachtripfan (talk) 21:06, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- Please, no personal attacks. You can find it exactly here. TheCartoonEditor (talk) (contribs) 22:14, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Coachtripfan: courtesy ping that I forgot to add TheCartoonEditor (talk) (contribs) 12:03, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
The author of the Voyage (album) page
Uses timings of songs without any sources
Sales figures from only one source. We don't know how reliable it is
Lists the whole tracklisting of GOLD Greatest Hits just because a Japanese edition has one version of Voyage with a GOLD GH bonus disc
Asserts bumblebee song is an old recording when Fan Club says it isn't Coachtripfan (talk) 12:55, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Coachtripfan: Okay. Let me explain.
- 1. Again, No personal attacks. Specifically putting blame on one user is a personal attack.
- 2. There are other sources for this, by the way. here
- 3. inews has been reliable in the past for Adele information, and is generally reliable for fact-checking.
- Please calm yourself down and allow us to have a good conversation. TheCartoonEditor (talk) (contribs) 18:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
"Calm yourself down" is a personal attack.
My criticism about
1. The timing of the songs is valid. No evidence or source or provided. We only know the length of the 3 released singles
2. Why highlight the Japanese edition with tracklistings from compilations/Dvds? Just give 10 tracklisting for global edition. Footnotes for international variations.
3. Ok there has been one or two sources about the pre-sale figures. But are they reliable? Coachtripfan (talk) 20:46, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
- Asking you to not personally attack people is a personal attack in it's ownright? I never knew.
- I don't care about the timing of the singes or the Japanese edition. I am only talking about the 111,000 sales.
- And yes, as I said, inews has been reliable in the past for ABBA information, and is generally reliable for other information, such as the new Adele record that the article mainly covers. Overall, I think it should be trusted with the pre-order sales. TheCartoonEditor (talk) (contribs) 01:18, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
Btw, the story about pre-sales is in two articles but written by the same person - Adam Sherwin. MSN often pick up stories from newspapers. The Independent and I newspaper are frequently used. Coachtripfan (talk) 20:50, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for this information. I thought that the articles were extremely similar, but I didn't know the fact about MSN. I will use this information in the future wisely. TheCartoonEditor (talk) (contribs) 01:19, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
Final album
Yes, I realize that the male members of the band have said this is it in an interview, which has been cited. But are they absolutely sure this time? Bluorangefyre (talk) 02:01, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
- Frida just said in an interview today to "not be too sure" that Voyage is the end & "never say never," & that's after Agnetha said "I don't dare to say [if a further reunion will happen] because it's a bit uncertain" in September, after Björn also said "never say never" in an interview with Benny last week, & after Benny literally changed his position in that same interview from his "this is it" position of last month to a new one of "if Benny & the ladies wanted to do more, then they could convince me." So, with all of that being said, perhaps it is not best for the article to, as it currently does, so clearly state that Voyage is the "final album," given that even the members of the band themselves are acting pretty fluid on on this matter. Brucejoel99 (talk) 04:00, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
- Agreed. Wikipedia is not a WP:CRYSTALBALL. 188.148.229.176 (talk) 22:43, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Track 3 Little things lead vocal Agnetha Faltskog
Track 3 Little things is Lead vocal Agnetha Faltskog StephenStoke (talk) 13:38, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
No it isn't. It is Frida Coachtripfan (talk) 20:58, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Scottish Chart
This is a component of the UK chart - like sales, streaming etc which are included.
Scotland is not an independent country. Its sales included in UK chart.
Exclude this Coachtripfan (talk) 21:00, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- It is not against Wikipedia's chart guidelines to include the Scottish chart. In some cases component charts are valid. If you don't think it should be included where the UK chart is, this is not the place to complain about what is already widespread practice of including it. Ss112 11:33, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
The first two singles were not a double A-Side but two individual releases with two different CD Singles available and listed seperately on the UK charts
I would say the two singles are clearly 'more' separate singles than a combined 'Double A'. Both exist in separate formats, with individual cover art. Discogs has two digital issues listed that combine the two tracks but one doesn't come with a valid download source. So that's just one combined release, compared to two for "Faith" and one for "Shut", separately. Only "Faith" has so far been released on 7", but Björn has stated that a 7" would be coming of "Shut" as well. If ABBA considered them a 'Double A', why did they release a 1-sided 7" and two 1-track CD singles? 'Double A' makes no sense. What comes to chart, both have charted on their own (along with all tracks from the album now), so defining what makes a 'single' by chart performance isn't very sensible these days. Also, ABBA particularly sell physical copies. Official site still has minimal info about the new releases, so that can't be used as a source. Although, obviously, all the physical formats are separate. When the new releases were announced (on Sept 2), they were referred to as two singles, released on the same day. Official Youtube pages for the two songs state 'Listen to two brand new songs', nothing about them being on the same single. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jopla2 (talk • contribs) 01:52, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
- The cover art for "Don't Shut Me Down" only exists because it was issued as a separate CD single. Physical formats are not the primary format in 2021—I don't know why this is constantly being raised as if the way in which CD singles are issued in 2021 should have some bearing on everything else or take precedence over how the songs were distributed on the biggest digital distributor of streamed music in the world, Spotify.
- "[B]oth have charted on their own". Yes? Since the download era charts have moved from being single-based to track-based. Did you really think two songs were going to chart as one entry in 2021? That doesn't mean songs aren't issued as double A-side singles anymore. Where on Earth are you getting the idea that calling the songs a double A-side is somehow based on their chart performance? That makes no sense at all. The only person basing their definition of a "single" on chart performance appears to be you, because your argument is "the songs charted separately so they're separate singles".
- Not all sources stated that they were two separate singles. The Irish Independent, The Scotsman, Contactmusic, a HMV staff review, and Spotify's own press release all use the term "double A-side". If there were no sources saying this I wouldn't have used the term or been arguing for the article calling them a double A-side.
- Finally, when you start new threads on a talk page, they should be placed at the bottom, not the top. Thank you. Ss112 11:46, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
- 'Dual' single might have appeared in some press release, but we have to consider what 'dual single' or 'Double A-side' single means. Here the description doesn't fit because all physical formats are separate. None combine the two. They are purely stand-alone singles, they are not Part I & II, and can't be bought as a set from official sources. There is no difference to the 3rd single Just A Notion either. The three are 'equal'. Also, consider you buy the 7" of ISHFIY. Are you not buying a single, a complete single? You are not buying one half of a single. Or if you buy the CD's of DSMD and JAN, do you then own 1.5 singles only? No, you own 2.
- Officials site appears to have been updated just now:
- https://abbasite.com/discography/
- See bottom of page. There is no mention of any connection between ISHFIY and DSMD, or 'double A'. Both are described as 'single'.
- Spotify isn't a distributor per se, like you say it's a streaming service. You cannot buy tracks there. Spotify has many release-like 'things', playlists, compilations that only exist is Spotify etc. Most aren't considered actual releases.
- You ask: "Where on Earth are you getting the idea...?" What? Read again. I say exactly the opposite: "defining what makes a 'single' by chart performance isn't very sensible these days".
- I did not place this thread where it is. The heading was already there, without any content below it. Jopla2 (talk) 19:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
"Faith" and "Shut" were released as two separate singles, not as a double A side They each have their own physical releases, their own catalogue numbers, and reached different chart positions. Just because they were released on the same day does not mean they were a double A-side. Nor does the way Spotify promoted them. Spotify is ONE streaming service, not the entire music industry. On Amazon, for example, they were available to download separately and you paid for each song. "Notion" was therefore the third single, and "Little Things" will be the fourth. 213.205.240.130 (talk) 02:28, 17 November 2021 (UTC)