Talk:Aseem Malhotra: Difference between revisions
Viv Hamilton (talk | contribs) m →Biographical Bias: request for specifics |
Viv Hamilton (talk | contribs) →Biographical Bias: added some criticism and discussion of balance |
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:Please can you be more specific. Other than the quote about his motivation, as far as I can see, the second and third paragraphs are sourced and referenced from third party sites. [[User:Viv Hamilton|Viv Hamilton]] ([[User talk:Viv Hamilton|talk]]) |
:Please can you be more specific. Other than the quote about his motivation, as far as I can see, the second and third paragraphs are sourced and referenced from third party sites. [[User:Viv Hamilton|Viv Hamilton]] ([[User talk:Viv Hamilton|talk]]) |
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::I have added some quotes from the Sarah Boseley article "Butter Nonsense". This section is dealing with Malhotra as a person and his career - the article already has a lot of criticism of his statements under the specific issues in the next section of the article. The issue of balance is that overall organisations tend to give positive recognition of people but there are very few that give negative ones (ignoble and Darwin being some exceptions). So on average for a biography it's not unexpected that the balance of what the Reliable Sources say is positive. There is plenty of criticism of Malhotra out there but most of it is in self-published articles so cannot be used here (there is also plenty of praise for him too in self-published material, which is equally not included in the article). [[User:Viv Hamilton|Viv Hamilton]] ([[User talk:Viv Hamilton|talk]]) 16:49, 12 January 2022 (UTC) |
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Adding Missing biography and (re)structuring the rest
I came across this article when I tried to look up who this guy is and found the article was only stub class. Overall the article doesn't give the impression of being consistent with WP:N. Looking at the edit history, it appears that it started out as a stub with information derived from the subject's own web page and then others have tried to balance that up but it still doesn't look like that has resulted in a neutral POV. I thought I would have a go at fixing it rather than just reporting it.
I've added in missing background biographical information based on what sources I could find. I've slightly restructured by adding a new heading to split the biographical material from all the health campaign controversies. I plan to work on the controversies part next. I plan to put more sub-headings to split out the campaign/controversial topics. I will need to move some paragraphs so it ends up in a logical/chronological order, so I will need to do some cutting and pasting. Note I am not planning to delete chunks. For each sub-topic what I think it needs is to identify the campaign/controversy, then start by reference or summary of the consensus established position, then Malhotra's position and identify if he is a lone voice or pioneer in this or part of a group and if there is other support, then the criticisms. At the moment some of the article switches several times from pro to con and pro to con again on the same topic Viv Hamilton (talk) 15:53, 30 August 2021 (UTC).
- I have started work on the controversies section. Currently working on Pioppi Diet. I have more work to do. In particular the statement with the citation to ref 27 appears to constitute original research. However, I think there are secondary sources that should address the point of comparing Pioppi with the reference values. Viv Hamilton (talk) 12:07, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
- I have finished work on the Pioppi diet section for the foreseeable future. I have restructured it as I described above: what is the consensus; what does Malhotra (in the book) say instead; are there others with the same view; what are the criticisms. I am now going to work on the next section on saturated fat, chlorestrol and statins and restructure in a similar way.Viv Hamilton (talk) 16:47, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
Founder Member on Action on Sugar
Hi - not sure of proper protocol for this, but thanks Viv and others for all your work on this and to keep it science based and neutral. I made a change earlier, as the point about Dr Malhotra being a founding member of action on sugar is disputed. Although he was briefly a director of science, the organization itself has never said he was a founding director. In addition, in correspondence with government released under freedom of information legislation, they have stated that he was never a founding member. This blog, admitted written by a critic, is available here: https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2017/09/completely-mad-action-on-sugar-on-aseem.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pocketfullofposies (talk • contribs) 19:27, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for raising this. The source you found is interesting. It doesn't count as a reliable source for a Biography of Living persons, because it's a personal blog without a separate editorial process so we can't use it. It's interesting because even though the critic quotes the correspondence from Action on Sugar where they say it's untrue that Malhotra was a founding member, the citic then says that he was a member when Action on Sugar was founded. The actual correspondence that appears in the blog is a primary source so also not suitable as a source for Wikipedia.
- It could be that Action on Sugar have their own definition of who were the founding members - perhaps there was an initial clique, who then invited a few more members to join them or perhaps Action on Sugar just want to rewrite history! I have changed it the statement to refer to him being the first Science Director. Viv Hamilton (talk) 07:16, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
Requested support on the BLP Noticeboard
I have requested support regarding the reference to Duncan Selbie in the Dirty Tricks secton Viv Hamilton (talk) 21:21, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
- Removed it as per discussion on BLP noticeboard, on grounds of undue weight to a single source [1], at least until additional material added.
- ^ "Tom Watson's diet doctor hit by government 'dirty tricks'". Times. 23 September 2018. Retrieved 4 December 2018.
- Noticeboard template removed - no further comments Viv Hamilton (talk) 17:26, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Analysis of sources for lead article (Please maintain and do not archive)
Malhotra is a controversial character. I have analysed all the independent sources (not those written by the subject himself) in the following table so the lead paragraph can give a balanced reflection of what the sources say. As time goes on and there are new sources and new points to be made please add to the table. Viv Hamilton (talk) 19:03, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
Source Type | Source | Year | Personal words | Ref to work |
---|---|---|---|---|
Positive Notability | ST5002016 | 2016 | Cardiologist | Founding Action on Sugar High Sugar |
KF2015 | 2015 | Cardiologist Anti-obesity expert |
Founding Action on Sugar Reducing sugar | |
Sustain | 2013 | Cardiologist Uses media profile |
Weaknesses of Responsibility Deal Choc filled vending machines in hospital | |
HSJ2013BME | 2013 | Interventional cardiologist specialist registrar Uses media profile |
Educate the public on health issues against big corporations’ profit making at the cost of increasing health risks to the general public, particularly children | |
HSJ2014BME | 2014 | Honorary Consultant Cardiologist Member of the Academy of Royal Colleges Obesity Group |
ignited debate over diagnosis: doctors’ treatment of simple cases that bring “no benefit to the patients” a culture of over-investigation” includes excessive use of antibiotics and imaging for non-sinister headaches | |
EvStd2014Supersmart | 2014 | Media Savvy Consultant Science Director Action on Sugar |
too much attention has been on saturated fat, while the dangers of sugar have been under-stated want to pressurise the Government to regulate the food industry to reduce the amount (of sugar) they’re spiking our food withs
| |
Critics Not all articles describe |
ButterNonsense | 2018 | Cardiologist dissident scientist |
chlorestrol sceptic statin critic |
sbm | 2020 | British Consultant Cardiologist statin denialist
|
circular reference This article quotes from WP article | |
ARS Technica | 2017 | Controversial UK Cardiologist |
high profile on media and television advocate of high fat diets |
Biographical Bias
Several paragraphs of the biographical and work history section read like they're written by the subject and are heavily biased. They are not neutral at all and I suggest rewriting to remove much of the glorified fluff. 82.8.55.103 (talk) 01:32, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- Please can you be more specific. Other than the quote about his motivation, as far as I can see, the second and third paragraphs are sourced and referenced from third party sites. Viv Hamilton (talk)
- I have added some quotes from the Sarah Boseley article "Butter Nonsense". This section is dealing with Malhotra as a person and his career - the article already has a lot of criticism of his statements under the specific issues in the next section of the article. The issue of balance is that overall organisations tend to give positive recognition of people but there are very few that give negative ones (ignoble and Darwin being some exceptions). So on average for a biography it's not unexpected that the balance of what the Reliable Sources say is positive. There is plenty of criticism of Malhotra out there but most of it is in self-published articles so cannot be used here (there is also plenty of praise for him too in self-published material, which is equally not included in the article). Viv Hamilton (talk) 16:49, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
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