Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kaya Comer-Schwartz

Kaya Comer-Schwartz

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Kaya Comer-Schwartz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Article about a borough councillor, not properly referenced as passing WP:NPOL #2. As always, the councils of London boroughs are not a level of office that confers an automatic free pass over Wikipedia's inclusion criteria just because the person exists -- it's a valid notability claim for an article that's sourced well enough to pass WP:GNG, but not an instant inclusion guarantee that overrides any sourcing problems.
But the referencing here consists entirely of a mixture of primary sources (her member/staff profiles on the self-published websites of her own party and the council) that aren't support for notability at all, and a small smattering of run of the mill coverage in Islington-based community hyperlocals, with not even one hit of citywide or nationalizing coverage shown at all.
Serving on borough councils, even as the leader of the council, simply isn't an "inherent" notability freebie in the absence of much better sourcing than this. Bearcat (talk) 14:59, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and England. Bearcat (talk) 14:59, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Keep: Upon reevaluation of the article about "Kaya Comer-Schwartz," it is evident that the references provided are from reliable sources. Let's break down the sourcing:

1. The first citation, "Black History Makers: 'They said I profited from tokenism' – Kaya Comer-Schwartz" is a news article on the Islington Gazette, a well-known newspaper founded in 1856.

2. The second citation, "Islington Labour urges government to support low-income households," is from a local news website.

3. The third citation is a primary source from the Labour party itself.

4. The fourth citation, "Cllr Kaya Comer-Schwartz appointed first Black woman Leader of Islington Council," is from The Voice (British newspaper), a national paper and a reliable source.

5. The fifth citation is a primary source from Islington Council's government website.

6. The sixth citation is again a primary source from "Democracy in Islington," a government website.

7. The seventh citation, "Cllr Kaya Comer-Schwartz takes over as leader of Islington Council," is a reliable source from the Islington Gazette.

Furthermore, there is another notable article about Richard Watts (politician), who was succeeded by Kaya Comer-Schwartz in Islington London Borough Council. Upon evaluating these articles and citations, it is clear that notability has been established. The presence of a previous similar councillor's article on Wikipedia also supports the notion that politicians in this council are notable. Thank you. Arhamic (talk) 02:00, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Added some more reliable and independent citations one from Islington Tribune which is also about Kaya Comer, another citation from NewsinCyprus.com, one from BBC and more. Arhamic (talk) 02:11, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

The sources being reliable isn't the only test they have to satisfy — the sources do have to be reliable, yes, but they also have to be covering her in a context that would satisfy the notability criteria for her occupation. For example, every local councillor in every town and city on the planet can always show some evidence of local coverage in their local media — but every local councillor in every town and city on the planet is not always notable enough for Wikipedia. We're not just looking for whether local media coverage exists in a councillor's local media — we're looking for whether a councillor's coverage establishes a compelling reason to treat her as a special case who occupies a special niche of elevated importance over and above most other local councillors, to the point that people on the other side of the world need to read an article about her. Bearcat (talk) 16:53, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

This comment is only generalisation about content, it does not specifically evaluate the sources presented. She's notable because she's being written about with SIGCOV in reliable sources. The sources do not focus on her presiding over a council meeting, or reading minutes of a previous meeting (which could rightly be considered routine), they cover her celebrating Irish revolutionaries, being the first black leader of the council etc. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:39, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Every single local politician gets some level of SIGCOV in reliable sources, which is why we've written WP:NOT... SportingFlyer T·C 10:44, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

• Delete non-notable borough councillor - almost all of the coverage is utterly routine that every borough councillor would receive and while it looks like she was covered in Cyprus, the website says the article was "automatically added to the system." It also reads promotionally, like a CV, and if kept needs to be rewritten, but could also be deleted on PROMO concerns. SportingFlyer T·C 22:12, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
• Keep not a "borough councillor" but a Black-Jewish Leader of a municipal area with 200,000+ people in one of the most significant metropolies on the planet. (FWIW, that population is almost three times the average UK parliamentary consituency). More than adequate sourcing available to satisfy the GNG: eg Town Hall leader: ‘Racism left me feeling worthless’, Cllr Kaya Comer-Schwartz appointed first Black woman Leader of Islington Council, Plaque unveiled in London honouring Irish revolutionary Michael Collins. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:39, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

  The first article is the local paper covering local politics so therefore routine, the appointment is clearly routine coverage, and the latter isn't significant coverage, just an article on an event she attended. SportingFlyer T·C 10:43, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

  The number of people who do or don't live in the entity that a politician represents is not relevant to our notability criteria for politicians at all. An MP isn't notable because of the number of voters in his or her own constituency, an MP is notable because he or she sits in a national body whose law-making jurisdiction encompasses a whole country, and thus has national authority and relevance beyond just their own constituency alone. You can live in the Shetlands and still have every bit as much need to know and read about Caroline Dinenage as anybody in Gosport does, because as a national MP she still has equal impact on your life no matter where in the UK you live — so her notability doesn't hinge on how many voters live in Gosport, it hinges on how many people live in the entire United Kingdom. So a borough councillor isn't of equivalent notability to an MP just because the borough's population might match that of an individual parliamentary constituency, because the borough council's area of jurisdiction isn't equivalent to that of parliament. Bearcat (talk) 16:18, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

  To reiterate, that's not the crucial element (hence "FWIW"), it's the sourcing. Nevertheless, population numbers can be a factor when considering notability, it's right there in WP:POLOUTCOMES: "Mayors of cities of at least regional prominence have usually survived AFD". Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 05:11, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

  She's clearly not a mayor, though, and mayors of regionally prominent cities are generally kept because they'll receive coverage not just in their city, but outside their city... SportingFlyer T·C 22:00, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

  "She's clearly not a mayor" ... can I suggest reading this and this to understand the difference between the Leader of Islington Council (primarily political) and the Mayor of Islington (primarily ceremonial). There are sources showing coverage outside of Islington. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 00:22, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

  No need - I understand how it works, especially given I'm writing this comment from Islington. SportingFlyer T·C 09:09, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

  Former rate payer myself. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 09:35, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:48, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. Goldsztajn (talk) 02:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
• Keep I had been leery about the possibility of notability for someone in this role, but the reality of the article is that the role is notable and the in-depth independent sources available from national sources demonstrate that the notability standard has been met. I acknowledge that some of the sourcing is drawn from local publications, but in totality the standard is met. Alansohn (talk) 20:43, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
• Keep. Notable political leader, valid claim of notability, passes WP:GNG due to:

1. https://www.islingtontribune.co.uk/article/well-be-good-listeners-says-council-leader-as-she-invites-residents-to-say-what-they-really-think in Islington Tribune
2. https://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/21228276.councillors-grandad-survived-nazi-concentration-camp/ in Islington Gazette (relies somewhat on primary content, but still proves some notability)
3. https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/inequality-cannot-be-right-says-boroughs-first-black-leader in Camden New Journal

Combined with lots of interviews, primary sources, and less significant coverage, this all adds up to enough for me to !vote keep. I recognise number 2 above is open to debate, but WP:THREE isn't a policy, and even if you disagree with that, I'll invoke WP:IAR and say the existence of this article about a Council's first Black women leader is a net positive to the encyclopedia, obviously information that people would seek out, not WP:PROMO and useful content. CT55555(talk) 23:59, 8 September 2023 (UTC)