Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 April 30

30 April 2024

Fathima Thahiliya

Fathima Thahiliya (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Who previously created this page and other editors who shared it in the deletion discussion did not have the quality pass to retain it, so this page has been removed, and as of today, this page is eligible for a new political position WP:NPOL or (officeholder), WP:GNG. category, which should be moved to draft to be edited and moved to the main page ~~ Spworld2 talk 01:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse AfD, which is three years old. Did you ask @Daniel: for a draft? It's unclear why we're here when there's no protection limiting a new article from being created. Star Mississippi 11:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
• Endorse original AfD as closed. I'm not sure what the appellant means by, should be moved to draft. Our policies have a long list of cases when an article should generally not be draftified, and some when it can, but no case where it should. If the subject's status has changed such that it now meets our notability guidelines, an article can be created, either in mainspace or in draft, and no one is stopping the appellant from doing so. If the subject's status has not changed since the AfD, draftifying is a waste of time. Owen× ☎ 12:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Template:Historical American Documents

Template:Historical American Documents (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Consensus for splitting was clear and was initially given by closing editor here and in previous discussion Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 March 12#Template:Signers of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, yet refusal to accept this consensus and consistent WP:BLUDGEONING by a certain editor at Template talk:Historical American Documents seems to have overturned and derailed the correct outcome --woodensuperman 06:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Please note that the nominator did not first discuss the closer's decision with the closer, which is listed as a required step before a review. Procedural close? Randy Kryn (talk) 12:04, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

  It seemed pointless, as you'd already convinced them to change their close against consensus. Needed to be seen on a wider forum. --woodensuperman 12:11, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse Keep, While the discussion, on a quick glance, seems to be a consensus to split, in reading it carefully - as the closer eventually did before reversing their response - that falls apart quickly. Split arguments included 1) that the navbox is too large (incorrect, there are hundreds if not thousands of navboxes which are broken up into sections, and this one has four easily understood and distinct sections), 2) that the navbox includes duplication (incorrect, each of the four sections lists individuals who drafted a particular document. That some were active in two events is akin to sportspeople playing two seasons of a sport, a sport which formed a 250 year old nation), 3) that other navboxes exist (there are signatory navboxes for each document, which are used in place of adding the central navbox to each signer) and 4) that there is a basis for splitting because of a previous discussion (incorrect, the rational fails when realizing that although this navbox was used as an example in an earlier discussion there were no notification tag placed - not on the navbox, not on its talk page, not on the pages of its topic structure, and not on the talk page of its creator). This collapsed and typically sectioned navbox actually saves space, has an accurate visible title ("Founding documents of the United States") and has been carefully edited and maintained since 2010. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:31, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

  Other than the two "keep" !votes, both converstaions were practically unanimously in favour of a split. --woodensuperman 12:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

  You missed some editors, more than two. There was only one conversation involved in this request, the first only used the navbox as an example without notifying anybody that it was being scrutinized. I address the split above (please remember that these decisions are not made by counting heads). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:16, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

  Nope, only yourself and Gwillhickers advocated for "keep". --woodensuperman 12:20, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Speedy vacate and leave for an admin, Toadette is not ready to be closing XFD's, especially contentious ones where there's clearly a split in opinion as is evident here. I'm not familiar enough with templates or I'd have done it myself. Star Mississippi 12:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Star Mississippi, the discussion may tend to confuse inexperienced closers, as it did initially for Toadette who, when asked, took another read and came to what I view as the correct conclusion. Hopefully an admin will take a good long look at this one, grab some coffee, view the "Founding documents of the United States" navbox, and create a solid mental map of the two "sides" before completing their analysis. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

•  Administrator note: @Woodensuperman and Randy Kryn: you have both commented verbosely and continuously at all venues related to this discussion. I would kindly ask that you cease commenting and let uninvolved editors discuss the matter. Primefac (talk) 12:19, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy vacate and revert on sight any other BADNACs by this out-of-control editor. Every few days we have to undo another BADNAC from this one editor. Enough already. Owen× ☎ 14:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Saira Shah Halim

Saira Shah Halim (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

The deletion discussion was taken without any proper discussion based on policy happening. The article had enough reliable sources with significant coverage over a wide period of time. I provided a wide list of sources. Two participants simply did not see anything and made vague comments, one of them was a brand new account and the other's only objection was that it was edited by sockpuppet. One more participant later came and after some discussion he accepted that the coverage was fine but he did not consider the topic notable because the topic didn't meet WP:NPOL ignoring WP:BASIC and also WP:GNG itself which the coverage meets. There was no other participation. Therefore it must have been no consensus or keep, not delete.

P.S, there was one more participant who concurred but didn't give a (vote) and wanted to see some more sources over a wider period of time which I showed but she didn't come back to it. It should be counted too. MrMkG (talk) 01:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Comment I relisted per @Liz's request at User_talk:Star_Mississippi#Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Saira_Shah_Halim_(2nd_nomination) but haven't had time to look at new input since then as I've been offline. Regardless of how this DRV closes and despite questions about the legitimacy of Shuvomoyghosh reactivation, I think @Nyttend's A7 probably shouldn't have happened given long history of this article. My .02 though, not policy.Star Mississippi 02:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse the original AfD, since everyone except the DRV nominator supported deletion so it couldn't have been closed any other way. Overturn the A7 since I think being a political candidate is a CCS even if it isn't evidence of notability, but re-delete that as a G4. And salt * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:22, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
• Endorse the original AFD as Delete. As per Pppery, Overturn the A7. I haven't seen the reposted article, but having seen the history, I concur with salting. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
• For the benefit of non-admins, the A7'd version stated in its entirety "Saira Shah Halim is the CPI(M) candidate of South Kolkata Lok Sabha." (No sources.) Arguably it's more of a G4 than an A7. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 02:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

  @Extraordinary Writ I am confused. Did someone create the article again with that single sentence after the article was deleted in AfD recently and is that what all the admins are seeing?

  I would request them to see the article that was created by me and deleted in the 2nd AfD nomination and see the conversations in the 2nd AfD nomination. It was a proper article, multiple paragraphs long divided into multiple sections with multiple sources.

  This DRV is about that. It shouldn't be deleted just because some sockpuppet or whatever is active around it too. MrMkG (talk) 04:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, that's what happened. I think everyone here is aware that you're talking about the second AfD (which people are calling "the original AfD"); they just have comments on the deletion of the single-sentence version too. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• The AFD-deleted article was thousands of bytes, with multiple sections and eight references. The speedy-deleted article, as you see from Extraordinary Writ's comment, was one sentence. It's obviously not a repost, and obviously not a G4 candidate. Anyone can be a candidate for political office; it's not at all a claim of importance merely to be a candidate. Nyttend (talk) 02:53, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
  • I'd have A1'd it after my third failed attempt at finding an article at some subphrase of South Kolkata Lok Sabha, if I somehow didn't notice the previous version. I also disagree on G4 - the new substub was a proper subset of the version deleted at AFD. It's immaterial, anyway. No reasonable person is going to leave that in mainspace after we deleted the full article that was here. —Cryptic 03:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
    • Presumably Kolkata Dakshin Lok Sabha constituency (aka Calcutta South (Lok Sabha constituency)). Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
• Comment - It's not about the original AfD, that was in 2016. Its about the second AfD. (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saira Shah Halim (2nd nomination)) MrMkG (talk) 03:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

See the conversation on User talk:OwenX#Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saira Shah Halim (2nd nomination) too. Over there User:Amakuru is also making the point, I am making. MrMkG (talk) 03:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• Comment The AfD was poorly argued. Even though numerical consensus was against the appellant, statements like Extensive coverage of a non-notable person doesn't help. are not policy based, and demonstrate a bias against failed political candidates, as if that somehow eliminated their GNG compliance. Of course, that GNG compliance itself is challenged by the general unreliability of Indian news sources overall. Neither G4 nor A7 applied to the recreation. In short? This is a big mess, and I'm not sure deletion is a better outcome than no consensus, given the amount of uncertainty and poor policy argumentation in play. Jclemens (talk) 05:37, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
• Comment - G4 should be clarified that it applies when the page in question is a subset of the deleted page, and, in the meantime, should be interpreted as applying when the page in question is a subset of the deleted page. The recreation after the AFD was a stupid subset of the deleted page. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)