Talk:Vijayanagara Empire

Changing Vijayanagar Kingdom's Map

The sources do not mention that Vijayanagar ruled Sri Lanka. The cited atlas has several issues, as many of its kingdom maps are inaccurate, and it conflates the histories of multiple empires from the same era. DeepstoneV (talk) 15:48, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

It looks like a proper consensus is needed on the maximum extent of the Empire, and the inclusion or exclusion of Sri Lanka and some other parts. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 03:40, 13 April 2024 (UTC) This comment folded into this discussion after the comments below through Special:diff/1219672658

The map doesn't shows Vijayanagara rule in Sri Lanka but shows its supremacy over it - https://archive.org/details/in.gov.ignca.16035/page/260/mode/1up?view=theater - According to Persian ambassador Abdur Razzak Vijayanagaran dominions spread over from Ceylon to Kulburga as supported by Nuniz Sathyashraya (talk) 12:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

The cartographer also included tributary regions on the Vijayanagara map. However, the same source you provided also mentioned Vijayanagara's tribute to the Bahmani Sultanate. Therefore, it would be appropriate to depict Vijayanagara territories under Bahmani Sultanates as well.Even if we consider Vijayanagara Suzerainty over Sri Lanka than it would only be on Jaffna kingdom of Sri Lanka not all of Sri Lanka. I can make a accurate map of Vijayanagara empire if u can Provide me the source that Jaffna Kingdom of Sri Lanka was under vassalization of Vijayangar DeepstoneV (talk) 18:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Restored to the original version for now until a consensus here can be formed and especially be attributed with sources. Noorullah (talk) 21:03, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

The current map appears to be more accurate, as Sri Lanka was not governed by Vijayanagara. If it had been ruled, it would have been only the Jaffna Kingdom under their suzerainty.The old map collides the histories of multiple kingdoms. DeepstoneV (talk) 08:38, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

• 
  Sangamas of the Vijayanagara Empire (made by Noorullah21)
• Map of Vijayanagar Kingdom (made by DeepstoneV)
  Map of Vijayanagar Kingdom (made by DeepstoneV)
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  Vijayanagara 1450s
• 
  Vijayanagara Empire 1336 – 1646 ad
• 
  Vijayanagara Empire

Previous, current? Please be specific. I've added a gallery, to make it clear what we're talking about. Looking at this map ("globalsecurity.org") (webpage here) and this map ("Ancient Indian Coins") (webpage here), it seems that Calicut, Sri Lanka, and apart of the Gajapati Kingdom of Orissa were tributaries of the Vijayanagara Empire. This is reflected in none of the maps above. Also, the extent of the Vijayanagara Empire's hold on Sri Lanka seems to be disputed, and the inclusion of the coastal area of the Bahmani Kingdom or Sultanate also seems a matter of dispute. So, we do indeed need a new map, based on more sources than just the present one, Schwartzberg, Joseph E. (1978). A Historical atlas of South Asia. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. p. 147, map XIV.l. ISBN 0226742210., which is obviously inaccurate. @Avantiputra7: could you offer your skills and talents here? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:27, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan: Here is the preliminary version of a map, based on the one published by Burton Stein, eminent historian of South India. It's from his History of India (2nd ed., 2010) p.135, Map 8, for circa 1485. The legend doesn't clarify about direct rule versus tributaries, so I am unclear why the Gajapati area is shaded unlike Calicut and Sri Lanka. I will try to collect more sources when I get an opportunity, to add details and modify as needed.

-Avantiputra7 (talk) 11:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 13:05, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism against vijaynagar Empire map

Previous uploaded map was in accurate Mnbnjghiryurr (talk) 15:07, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Map Change

@DeepstoneV@Joshua Jonathan@Sathyashraya@Avantiputra7 @Noorullah21 I want to propose a map change for Vijaynagar Empire as the current map of Vijanagar Empire which is this 1 does not show the extent of Empire from the perspective of whole subcontinent and it is not that graphically good too. Hence I wanted that this map 2 should be used in place of the earlier one(Source has been cited in the source section of the map). Let's have a consensus

Regards Rawn3012 (talk) 06:24, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

That's a very nice map; my compliments. Nevertheless, I'd like to wait and see if Avantiputra will refine his map, and I'd like to hear his thoughts. Regards, Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@Rawn3012@Joshua Jonathan Yes, I am in favor of using this proposed new map: it looks good to me generally. My one lingering concern is that I still have not been able to reach a firm conclusion as to what areas should be shaded or not, or what year to use. For instance, Map 3.1 (p.65) in India before Europe by Catherine B. Asher and Cynthia Talbot (2nd. ed., 2023: Cambridge University Press)—depicting the reign of Deva Raya II in 1432-1446—has included the northern piece of Sri Lanka, but not the Gajapati lands beyond the Krishna River. The reasoning is not made clear, comparing the text on p.66, which describes his conquests. I don't know of any fresh conquests between 1446 and 1485 to explain it. The reign of Krishnadevaraya (1509-1529) has also been considered as the peak of the empire due to victories over the Deccan Sultanates and Gajapatis, but I can't find whether the territory in Sri Lanka was still held at that time. (Asher and Talbot Map 6.1 on p.205 doesn't make it clear.) -Avantiputra7 (talk) 08:03, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan@Avantiputra7 Disclaimer: My comment is for the time frame of 1485 only; As far as the territory of Vijaynagar Empire beyond Krishna river is concerned. It can't be clarified as indeed did Saluva Narasimha took the territory of Udaygiri which falls in Andhra Pradesh from Gajapatis but it is far from Krishna river delta and the territories held by Vijaynagar in Sri Lanka according to me was temporary(conquests followed by reconquests). As a result, proper boundary-making is very difficult. However, I am adding the proposed map as it shows the extent of the Empire from a subcontinental purpose. If a change is proposed, I would do it else, It's an SVG file which means you can edit the map by yourself.

Regards Rawn3012 (talk) 17:41, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi, @Joshua Jonathan @Avantiputra7 The map I provided previously has a new version 1. It shows more details like topography and removes the anachronistic modern national and regional boundaries. It is based on the same old source of the Vijayanagara Empire c.1485, according to Burton Stein's History of India (2nd ed., 2010) p.135, Map 8. I have added the updated map in the infobox. If you find something wrong or have different views. Please feel free to change or recommend me Rawn3012 (talk) 01:24, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Is there any way you can zoom in a bit on Vijayanagara? The old map looked fine zoomed out with the extra details and borders but now that everything non-Vijayanagara is just blank space, the map looks.. not great to say the least. I think it would be best if you used the look and style of the old map but zoomed in (a lot) on Vijayanagara, which would remove the current country border issue. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 01:37, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with FN that the blank space looks odd, if not 'alien'; I also would prefer the previous version (sorry....). Regards, Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 03:02, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Vijayanagar Kingdom

The term Vijayanagar Kingdom should be represented instead of Empire Dooblts (talk) 18:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

See WP:COMMONNAME; ngram shows that using "Empire" is the far more common usage. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 18:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Than why the name Maratha Empire was changed into Maratha Conferadacy Dooblts (talk) 19:22, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

And in that case most Kingdoms can he represented as Empires. I have saw SKAG changing the of Hoysala Empire to Hoysala Kingdom, Similar actions should be take on Vijayanagar Empire's article Dooblts (talk) 19:23, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

That's because, for the Hoysala example, Hoysala Kingdom is the common name, if you looked at SKAG's requested move statement, while Vijayanagar Kingdom is not. Vijayanagara also has a much better case for being called an Empire than the Hoysalas as the former was much more than a minor power but controlled much of India at its peak. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 19:28, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

isnt this an more accurate map??

wouldnt this be a better map?

this map shows vijaynagar empire in 1525 with its tribuatries PranshavAnandPatel (talk) 19:56, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the addition; looks quite good to me (but, I know very little about Indian history; first time I read about the Afghan Empire. Regards, Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 12:39, 27 July 2024 (UTC)