Talk:Mike Gundy

What about "immunity" for sportswriters

The article makes the point about how the media controversy raised questions about whether it is consistent for adulation from the media to be accepted, but not criticism. But another question this raises is if a sportswriter calls out a player and questions their manhood, then what's wrong with a player or coach calling out a sportswriter and questioning their credibility? John ISEM 18:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• I think we cover that, don't we? We explain that he Gundy alleges 3/4 of the article was false, and we also explain that he refused on multiple occasions to back up his allegations. I don't think anyone has denied that it is fair to challenge a reporters story if you can point out problems with the piece. Johntex\^talk 19:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

What the article doesn't cover, at all, is whats actually at the heart of the entire issue, namely that people from across the country have expressed overwhelming support for Mike Gundy while those in the print media have been almost completely alone in defending the journalist and criticizing the coach. The way it currently reads is heavily favorable towards Jenni Carlson and paints the entire issue around what happened on Monday, when he refused to discuss it further. Additionally, Gundy did point out two specific things in the article that he said were untrue. 1) That Bobby Reid was benched because he was scared, and 2)that the decision to start him in the first place was made because he threatened to transfer. Carlson's article made those assertions based on "rumors and rumblings" and "back stories told on the sly", and Gundy, the one person who actually made those decisions, pretty emphatically said that it wasn't true.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.183.207.91 (talk • contribs) 16:08, 2007 September 26 (UTC)

• Hello, thanks for your comment. Here are a few thoughts on that:

1. It is an interesting opinion about most people agreeing with Gundy, but unless you provide a source it is only your opinion and it can't be included in the article. If you can find some sort of verifiable reliable source (i.e. not a blog or a fan site) that says they have done a survey and x% of people surveyed agreed with Gundy, then that could be included.
2. Gundy is dead-wrong if he claims that Carlon said "That Bobby Reid was benched because he was scared". He needs to read the article more closely. The word "scared" appears only one time, and it is in a quote from Reid, saying, ' "I get sweaty palms. I get the butterflies in my stomach. I sweat lot,” he said then. "I've been playing this game for 15 years. And I can honestly say every game I've played in, I've been nervous. It's not so much me being scared; I just get to a point where I start worrying about a lot of things I can't control." '[1] So, we can certainly include that Gundy said she was wrong to say he was scared, but we'd have to include the actual quote from the article that proves she never said that in the first place.
3. Here is what she says about Gundy possibly investigating transferring: "Word is that Reid has considered transferring a couple different times, the first as early as 2005. Reid, then a redshirt freshman, was facing competition from returner Donovan Woods, and apparently, Reid considered leaving OSU just because he had to compete for the spot."[2] She never says that he was benched because he considered transferring. She doesn't say the coaches even knew about it. She may have gotten that from family members.
4. So, there is really no proof that either of these things are incorrect. If they were, they still would not be "3/4 of the article".
5. The fact is that Gundy never gave his version of why Reid got benched. Therefore, a reporter went out and did some investigative reporting to try to find out. Her sources may or may not be correct. Gundy may or may not be lying to protect his own interest, such as trying to look good to other "kids" he is recruiting. But surely Gundy can't think that a major Division I football team in a BCS conference can swap QBs with no explanation and expect that no reporter is going to dig into it. And once they do dig into it, they are going to print what they learn.
6. You talk about "whats actually at the heart of the entire issue". There is no single thing at the heart of the issue. There are several issues here. One of them is a question of a proper way to express discontent with an article. Another is about what is proper to write in the first place. Another is why the QB really got benched in the first place, which Gundy is still not adressing. Another issue is the alleged sexism inherent in his comments.

The heart of the issue, as I see it, is that something is going on with Reid's personal life. Possibly something pretty heavy and Carlson took a shot at him. Gundy got mad because unlike some of his other players, Reid is a good kid. This is an emotional issue and honestly it deserves a paragraph in an encyclopedia entry, not 70% of the entry. 209.187.72.3 15:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

1. Yet another issue, and where Gundy really gets off lightly as this Wikipedia article is currently written, is in how a coach can take so much attention away from the accomplishments of his team, who had just won a major victory.
2. Gundy also gets off lightly here in terms of some of the truly bizarre things he said, such as "I'm 40 years old. I'm a man." Calling the editor "garbage", etc. Plenty could be made of all the stories laughing at how childish his behavior was for someone claiming to be "a man".

In conclusion, I think the article is pretty balanced as it is. I'm sure we could find other sources standing up for Gundy, but we could find lots more being critical of him as well. I'm not sure there is a point to quoting 10 more people who are saying largely the same things. If you do find something unique though, like a citable survey, then we should look at working that in. Johntex\^talk 02:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

He's a man compared to Reid, who is 21. He is basically saying, "Come after me, I've been around longer." And as to sexism, Gundy never called Carlson out for not being a "mother." he called her out for not being a parent and then contrasted that with himself (Gundy is a parent.)209.187.72.3 15:24, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

You'll have to excuse me I'm a little new to this wikipedia thing, just got a screenname, so if this comes up in some weird format or something ... my apologies. Now, to the issue:

1. I'm not sure what the wikipedia rules are concerning citation, and I don't know that a scientific poll has been conducted yet on this, so online polls may be out of bounds. However, the article does make note of the number of YouTube views, so certainly some online citation must be allowable. ESPN has a poll on their website in which over 60% of respondents are in total agreement with Gundy and less than 10% in agreement with Carlson. Like I said, Im not clear on whats allowable so we may have to wait to see if there is a more scientific poll conducted.
2. I also think it would be worth mentioning that Bobby Reid's mother has appeared on TV in Houston http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/front and refuted several of Carlson's claims. Especially significant is that she denies the infamous "chicken eating" scene ever took place, and according to the OSU Media Department, Carlson was not even at the game in question, which was in Troy, AL.
3. The sloppy quality of Carlson's journalism has also been brought up by a number of professional journalists, most notably Jason Whitlock of the Kansas City Star http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/290829.html
4. During the rant I thought Gundy made it pretty clear why Reid was benched from the starting QB spot. At one point he refers to Reid as "a kid who does everything right, but may not play as well on Saturday, and you let us make that decision"
5. The article did not imply that Reid had been benched because he threatened to transfer, it implied that he had been originally given the starting job becuase he threatened to transfer.
6. Finally, and mostly because I'm tired and its late, I think its obvious we probably have a different perspective of this entire issue, but I think its important that the wikipedia entry be as objective as possible, and reading it the way I read it, I thought it was overly negative towards Gundy. If I were reading this article without any prior knowledge of the issue, I would have a much different take on it than I would say most people in the country have had. Again, I don't know whats required for a poll, but all wikipedia-ing aside, it doesnt take much research to find where the sides have come down on this. And reading this as it stands now, it comes across as slanted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trip349 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Jenni Carlson

Someone should write an article about her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.58.206.209 (talk) 06:50, 27 September 2007 (UTC)