Talk:Barack Obama

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Isn't Obama a Muslim?

(Waxman22 22:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)) Although I am not sure "where" to place this on the main page; I think it is rather important to note that Obama was sworn into office with his hand on the Koran, not The Bible. Just because someone is baptized doesn't mean they practice Christianity (his own statement about faith is that it can be used to accomplish his political goals). I see the "Personal life" section mentions his father being Muslim, but says nothing about his education as a Muslim himself. It also doesn't mention that even after his father left, Obama continued in Muslim school. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced Obama to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the radical teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Isn't all this information very importanat? I apologize for my lack of links, but I am pretty new at this and am at work. I just thought someone might take enough interest in this information to add it.

Actually, no, Obama was not sworn in on a Koran. Nobody is sworn in on any holy book, it is not part of the official ceremony. If they want to be sworn in on a holy book in a private ceremony, they can be, but even then, Obama was not sworn in on a Koran. You seem to be conflating him with Keith Ellison, who did hold a private ceremony in which he was sworn in on a Koran as the first Muslim elected to Congress. And if you go back through the archives, you can see a lot of discussion of the talking points you raise. Shsilver 22:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

The debunked and bullshit school claim is mentioned in a footnote along with a bunch of references showing how bullshit it is. It's not worthy of mention in the article IMHo given that it's basically a non issue. The only ones who fell for it were Fox News everyone else quickly realised it was complete BS so basically it was a tiny blip Nil Einne 23:17, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Forgive me if I am mistaken but...

Is his middle name really Hussein? Contralya 11:04, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

You should definitely read the archives. It is. --Rtrev 13:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks. It sure is odd how someone running for president has the same middle name as Saddam's last name. Contralya 00:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It's a very common Arabic name. As you can read here, it means "beautiful" or "handsome". —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 01:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• For the record, Barack isn't an Arab, Arabic names are just frequent in the Koran, so non-Arab Muslims like to use them as well. Funkynusayri 03:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

His parents were atheists. It's cultural, not religious. johnpseudo 13:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Youngest person running for president

Somebody please mention hes the youngest person running for president of 2008. Hes way younger then the rest of those old bags. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Blizzard King (talk • contribs) 00:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that would be worth a mention, if it is true and has been mentioned by an outside source. Steve Dufour 00:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

On the Board of Directors Joyce Group

Someone should update this to include the fact he was a gun control zealot who was on the board of the Joyce Group a rabid anti-gun group. Also note Chicago has an illegal gun ban in his home state, as well as an equal protection (14th) violating ban on concealed carry permits (cops get them, others dont, violates equal protection of laws).

Barack Obama was on the Board of Directors for the Joyce Foundation from 1998 to 2001. You can find more information at The Joyce Foundation. http://www.sportsmenforobama.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33

He is well versed in constitutional law so he is premeditating treason.

mickrussom 20:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you cite that the Joyce Group have rabies? Can you site that Obama, a ten year professor of constitutional law, is acting treasonous by his applicable support of some conditions and rules within the framework of the firearms that Chicagoans still have access and rights to possess? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.121.192.190 (talk) 18:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protected status revisted

In the more than two weeks since this article was semi-protected without an expiration date I count three vandal/unhelpful edits. Any support for reopening this article to new and unregistered editors and giving unprotected status a similar two-week trial? --HailFire 12:50, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Hailfire, the problem with vandalism on this article(and Wikipedia wide, for that matter) has rarely been an issue with the named accounts that have been around long enough to edit this page, it is the anonymous/newly created accounts that have been problems. So I'm not sure what the amount of vandalism that this article has received since the indef semi-protect was implemented has to do with getting this article unprotected... All in all, your count just shows that semi-protection is working. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 17:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright Bobblehead, I admit the unconvincing logic of my previous post. :) Here's another try: Perhaps the idea I have been trying to express is that I don't think vandalism on this widely watchlisted biography of a leading presidential candidate ought be managed the same way as we might manage it for articles about cheese and taco. Considering the context of this article, isn't there a substantial risk that semi-protection, a tool designed to help us address one problem, may be creating another? Semi-protection is great for calming suspected outbreaks of coordinated vandalism after revert, warning, block strategies have failed. I am all for that. But that is not what has happened on this article the last few times that semi-protection was applied. All I am saying is we should give anyone can edit a chance--at least once every two weeks, and we really don't need to make a dash for the bunkers the moment someone hurls some nasty language or an inappropriate image at the article. Is this logic just a bit more convincing? --HailFire 20:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how anything has changed in regards to the nature of Obama's high profile/visibility since the sprot was last implemented that would alter this article being a vandalism magnet. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 21:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

As you'll guess, I agree with Bobblehead. And if Pro crast in a tor's reading of Wikicharts is correct here - even 10 minutes of vandalism standing on this article means that hundreds of people see the problematic material - and I think that is unacceptable, given the nature of the vandalism. Setting ground rules for participation in a given activity is not prior restraint: If the Wikipedia Foundation is the government in your analogy, prior restraint would be announcing ahead of time that an article about Barack Obama can't be published. Prior restraint is not Wikipedia deciding what ground rules for such writing are, any more than it's prior restraint when a newspaper decides that you have to provide them with your name and contact information (a lot more restrictive and revealing of one's identity than getting a wikipedia username, I might point out) in order to have a letter to the editor published, even anonymously. So let's try to keep freedom of the press out of this - it's really not relevant. Tvoz |talk 19:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

404 links

As of Sept 24, 2007, the following links in this article return an HTTP code of 404:

• http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-oxy29jan29,0,2099497,full.story?coll=la-home-local
• http://www.senatedem.state.il.us/obama/index.html
• http://www.senatedem.state.il.us/obama/index.html
• http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/primary/
• http://lugar.senate.gov/pressapp/record.cfm?id=267485
• http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-money16jul16,1,3876162.story
• http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.wage22jul22,0,3701056.story
• http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20040318/ai_n12537351
• http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070518/obama_iran.html
• http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/4580864.html

I recommend that they all be removed since they are a waste of the reader's time. I find that the changing {{cite web}} to {{cite news}} is a good way to handle removing the url while otherwise leaving the ref in place.--RidinHood25 13:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I've replaced the broken links and confirmed that all current links were available as of September 30, 2007. Also updated accessdates. --HailFire 16:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Obama / Muslim

I believe that this article should include the fact that Barack Obama has been raised a muslim and should not be trusted with leading our country. He could quite possibly be a threat to America especially with the war on terrorism. He may be a threat to national security if elected for president. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robrhoten (talk • contribs) 15:43, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, you may "believe" that but can you cite any reliable sources which support that belief? We don't edit the articles based on personal belief but on verifiable facts. --StuffOfInterest 15:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Obama does not wear an American flag on purpose

Mr. Obama revealed that his not wearing an American flag pin was something that he purposely doesn't do. He said it. It is notable.

It is not that he didn't think of it. It is not that he forgot. He said "I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest."

See http://www.suntimes.com/news/commentary/589618,CST-EDT-edit05new.article Ephraim Inoni Jr 15:56, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

If you add it to his you'll have to add it to every other candidate's page, except for Rudy's. ABC News covered this a couple of nights ago and pointed out that Obama is far from being the only one. Seems more like a flash in the pan news story than something worth having in a permanent biography. --StuffOfInterest 16:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

He's not African American

Obama is not African American. For two reasons. Firstly African Americans are not the same thing as immigrants from Africa. African Americans are descendents of slaves who have been in America for many generations, and effectively have only American heritage. Obama is the child of someone born in Kenya. He has no African American heritage. The only similarity is the colour of his skin. Secondly, Obama is 50% white. Sorry if I'm being too picky. Carl Kenner 01:37, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

• African American isn't such an exclusive term. Funkynusayri 05:05, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Last time I checked an African American is someone from African desent. Gang14 05:45, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Obama is an American citizen with notable African descent, hence African American. If you argue against this, you are wrong. Sorry, but your semantics isn't going to change the obvious and indisputable fact that he's an African American. — EliasAlucard|Talk 08:06 06 Oct, 2007 (UTC)
      • Oh and by the way, the racist one-drop rule says that he's an African American because according to the one-drop rule, he can't be white. — EliasAlucard|Talk 08:06 07 Oct, 2007 (UTC)
        • First, the editors of this article need not decide for themselves what makes a person an African American when Wikipedia already has an article that defines African Americans as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.[1] In the United States the term is generally used for Americans with sub-Saharan African ancestry. Most African Americans are the descendants of captive Africans who were enslaved within the boundaries of the present United States, although some are—or are descended from—voluntary immigrants from Africa, the Caribbean, South America, or elsewhere.[2]"
          Second, please take a look at African American#Who is African American?: "For example, 55% of European Americans classify Senator Barack Obama as biracial when they are told that he has a white mother, while 66% of African-Americans consider him Black.[52] Obama considers himself to be black[53] though he is generally considered to be African American.[54]" — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 06:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
          • For those who subscribe to the out of Africa theory, all Americans are African-Americans. Just as all Asians are African-Asians, all Europeans African-Europeans, etc. And the point is? That ethnic/race classification is a slippery slope without definitive answers and is used more often to divide than unite people. Carlossuarez46 06:42, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
            • Yeah, but, we're talking about modern ethnicities, not 50 000 years ago. — EliasAlucard|Talk 10:05 07 Oct, 2007 (UTC)
              • We're talking about African American in context of Obama - you are putting time line definitions on it - so in how many years will the African Americans (however you define them) of today cease to be so due to passage of time? Carlossuarez46 16:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
                • Well, for starters, I don't think you can say there were any African Americans before 1492. But that's just me being generous, because after all, an American state didn't exist in 1482. So it really comes down to the past 200 years or so. Also, it doesn't exist any pure blood scale for being "African American." — EliasAlucard|Talk 03:07 07 Oct, 2007 (UTC)

Dominionist?

Statements he's made (found here) seem to point in that direction:

The senator from Illinois asked the multiracial crowd of nearly 4,000 people to keep him and his family in their prayers, and said he hoped to be "an instrument of God."

"Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics," Obama said. "Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power's sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God."

He finished his brief remarks by saying, "We're going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."

So by "a Kingdom right here on Earth," does he mean a Christian-run government? That would be the conclusion a lot of people would make if a Christian Republican had said those things. Jinxmchue 03:21, 8 October 2007 (UTC)