Talk:Tool (band)

Ænima Demos

Some of you may or may not have run across these things floating around on various torrent sites. The "Ænima Demos" pack includes a demo of Pushit, Stinkfist, Ænema, and Eulogy. I'm just curious if anyone has any info about them, as I had no idea they existed until I found them. We know about the 72826 demo tapes, as they were legitimately manufactured and released to send off, but I've never seen so much as a mention of these things. They sound pretty authentic. Any info? --74.195.55.182 16:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes I've heard a few, not sure if I've heard them all, (can't recall hearing "Pushit" and "Ænema" demos) what specifically do you want to know about them? I'm fairly certain the "Stinkfist" demo is authentic, as the demo is very similar to the way they performed it live before the touring for Ænima. Same with "Eulogy". daveh4h 19:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm just curious where they came from. Where were they recorded? When? Were these sessions still with Paul D'Amour? Most importantly, how did these get to the internet? I could let you listen to them, by the way, if you're interested. --Aganar 18:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, at toolnavy.com they say they're done with Paul. So, since Justin Chancellor joined shortly before they actually decided on Bottrill as a producer, it's hard to guess where they were recorded, but it hints at a recording in the later summer of '95. --Johnnyw talk 20:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Does ANYBODY know where to get the lyrics to these demos? It'd be interesting to be able to see what exactly they changed in the lyrics, but the changed parts are almost impossible to hear, like the whispers in Stinkfist. There are so many changes in the Pushit demo it's almost not even the same song, though, still hard to hear. --A*damw talk 10:01, 23 June 2007

I'm sorry, I don't really know. Normally, the people at toolnavy.com can help with such things. On a different note, I would be interested in the question if we could add the info about the demos to the article? Or probably better to the Aenima article, what do you think? --Johnnyw talk 14:05, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

IMHO the info on the demos should be included here as their first demo has it;s own article. maybe put something about them on the AEnima page.68.255.230.218 23:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

i added a note about the demos in a trivia section on Ænima's article.68.255.174.173 06:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Cam de Leon courtsuit

I have found another source regarding the lawsuit by Cam de Leon. tvguide.com says:

Something more concrete and far less pleasant to the band is a lawsuit filed by visual artist Cam De Leon, whose work has been closely aligned with Tool for over a decade.

"He had done some artwork that we paid him to do in the past for our band and he came with this ridiculous lawsuit saying he's the fifth member of the band and a partner and he was head of our art department," said Jones, who won a Grammy this year when "10,000 Days" was named best recording package.

"There is no art department. I just feel like it's total extortion. We've been fighting it and it's been really burning a hole in my stomach. It's just been very distracting."

The article has no year tag on it, the website auto-generated copyright tag is 2007. But I think it's rather 2006. Any idea how we can find out what happened to the lawsuit? Maybe any Californians here who could make a quick call to the lawyers' office (next link)? Here is the article published by de Leon's lawyers: [1]. - Johnnyw 12:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC))

Maybe some helpful suggestions...

Hi folks, the following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and so.. some might not be applicable.

• Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.^[?]
• Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.^[?]
• This article may need to undergo summary style, where a series of appropriate subpages are used. For example, if the article is United States, than an appropriate subpage would be History of the United States, such that a summary of the subpage exists on the mother article, while the subpage goes into more detail.^[?]
• Avoid using contractions like (outside of quotations): aren't.
• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.^[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas.

My first comments: I think we can skip the summary style thing since we've already summarized the obvious parts. But I'd follow the suggestion about the headers immediately and change the first sub-section's header to "Early years". Hope you agree and find some of this helpful. Best wishes, Johnnyw talk 21:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Subheadings in the History section

After giving it a bit of thought and looking at some of the featured band articles (well, at least the ones I like.. I luckily avoided clicking on Celine Dion by accident ;) I think it would be best if we change the History-subheadings. Currently, we have:

• Early years (1990–1995)
• Ænima, legal issues, A Perfect Circle and Salival (1996–2000)
• Lateralus, rumors and DVD singles (2001-2005)
• 10,000 Days

In particular, I don't really like the second and third. I'll simplify the structure and titles by splitting the beginning into two sections. Now we've a section for each album release, which seems appropriate for the article I think:

• Early years (1990–1992)
• Undertow (1993-1995)
• Ænima (1996–2000)
• Lateralus (2001-2005)
• 10,000 Days (2006-present)

If you have any suggestions regarding new titles, agree with the new version or want the old ones back, please, leave your comments here ;) Johnnyw talk 21:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC

I do agree with the new heading proposals - they seem to be more clear and concise. Thsi is true becuase Toll tends to have such long periods between albums and they are such a progressive band that when we discuss two different albums, we are also discussing two drastically different time periods. Thanks.--Hlandry (talk) 05:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Political lyrics source

Below is an article transcribed from Rock Sound that touches on the lyrical direction of 10,0000 Days:

Rock Sound (UK Magazine)

DEEPER THAN EVER

New Tool Album to Push Things Even Further Forward

Prog-metal pioneers Tool are gearing up to make their long-awaited return with their fourth full studio album, which is tentatively titled “Ten Thousand Days”. Due for release via Sony BMG on May 1, the 11 tracks featured represent the first new material to come from the LA quartet since 2001’s now legendary ‘Lateralus’, and herald a heavier direction for the band. Although the album was self-produced, Tool enlisted the recording know-how of Joe Baresi (Queens of the Stone Age, Melvins) to aid them, and have confirmed track titles including “Rosetta Stoned”, “Lost Keys (Blame Hofmann)” and “Ten Thousand Days”.

Speaking to Rock Sound, bassist Justin Chancellor explained that Baresi was instrumental in helping the band achieve a new level of sonic power; “Because he’s such a guitar-minded person, he really helped us achieve something we haven’t been able to up to now in terms of our sound. At first it was a bit of a trip when we first started to mix it. We had to get our head around doing it in a different way. But we quickly understood why Joe was doing what he was doing, and how it was helping us get better. It’s not just an overload of guitars though – he’s given each instrument its own space to exist and I think that gives the album an overall depth that was missing from the last one.”

Meanwhile, frontman Maynard James Keenan was unapologetic about the band’s long absence: “Clearly if I hadn’t been away with A Perfect Circle, it would have come out sooner, but it’s a complex record that needed time to come together and to solidify. I didn’t want to subject Tool to that pressure that a lot of bands put on themselves to get an album out quickly to keep everyone interested. For a band that makes the kind of music we do, it’s never going to be beneficial.”

Given Keenan’s pre-Tool career as an American solider, the album inevitably features a lyrical preoccupation with the much-debated intervention of Western forces in Iraq and the subsequent fallout, but the vocalist insisted that the new album will not see Tool climbing on to a political soapbox.

“There’s not very much use for sloganeering when dealing with something as complicated as this, so there’s no question about the album being simplified in the way that bands like Green Day have (done things). I’ve tried to employ a more emotional, cerebral element to the things I’ve seen in recent times and the idea of that is to initiate thought rather than aimlessly waving a fist. The other thing that I feel is important is to state how we are all indicted by this situation. There’s no way any of us can distance ourselves from what’s happening and there’s definitely no exoneration for people who chose not to look at it or think about it.”

The band have been confirmed as one of the headlining acts for this year’s Download Festival, and will play a London date around the same time.

Use what ye will. Skomorokh ^incite 16:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! Do you, by any circumstance, have the ISSN of that edition? Johnnyw talk 20:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Alas no. It was from early March 2006, as far as I can recall. After some snooping, the best I can come up with is that the March 8th issue had Panic at the Disco! on the front cover. Probably best to leave the article out, what with the FAC brigade nosing around and all. Skomorokh ^incite 17:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Tool at FAC

Just a quick note, albeit an important one:

I nominated the article for Featured Article status. Please check Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tool (band) frequently do help this article meet the Featured Article criteria. Johnnyw talk 20:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

As a result of some of the comments on FAC, i've went through one of the sections and tried to limit the overuse of adjectives and what may be seen as pushing a POV, one thing I removed that may be perceived as major is this:

While seemingly contradictory, this is merely the result of "music genre" being "an ill-defined notion, that is not founded on any intrinsic property of the music, but rather depends on cultural extrinsic habits", such as fads or simply personal taste.

To me, describing what we might call "the uslessness of musical genres" is not the focus of this section and is a little alarming. Even though it is cited, it seems like OR, and we can do without it. daveh4h 17:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Second attempt

Hi folks! After returning to Berlin, I've kinda settled in.. I've got an Internet connection and the time looks right to give the FAC another try.. Last time, I think we could have made it, the candidacy was archived when we were still in the middle of things. There were some very encouraging comments at the end, most issues seem to have been addressed (a big thank you to everyone, and to dave4h in particular :) After Raul (the FAC overseer) closed the candidacy, I tried to contact him twice about re-opening the process (following an advice of one of the reviewers, who felt the same way), but Raul was probably to busy. So I guess re-nominating the article would be the best thing to do. I was thinking about early next week, like Monday/Tuesday. Any thoughts? Johnnyw talk 12:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction between this page and Maynard's

It is said on this page that d'Amour completed the line-up, but the page for Maynard claims that Carey completed the line-up. Who joined Tool first? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.205.169 (talk • contribs)

This article here should be correct, at least a source is given, the 1997 article in Circus Magazine, which stated that "Danny Carey, was an accomplished drummer who agreed to sit in with them. Someone who knew both Jones and original bassist D'amour introduced the two, and soon D'amour completed the line up of the soon to be named band, Tool." I will adapt the Keenan article accordingly.. Johnnyw talk 13:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Lead proposal

This is a proposal to maybe address one reviewer's concerns regarding the lead:

Tool is an American rock band, formed in 1990 in Los Angeles, California. Since then, Tool has gained worldwide success, critical acclaim and is credited as having introduced heavy metal to art rock.

Tool emerged with heavy metal music on its first EP when the genre was dominated by thrash metal. With the rise of the alternative metal movement in the early 90s, the band broke into American mainstream with the first LP Undertow in 1993. On the three following albums—Ænima (1996), Lateralus (2001), and 10,000 Days (2006)—the band pursued its efforts to unify musical experimentation, visual arts, and a message of personal evolution. All albums went platinum in the US, the last three won Tool a Grammy Award, and the latter two albums topped the charts in several countries.

Due to Tool's incorporation of visual arts and relatively long and complex releases, the band is generally described as a style-transcending act and part of progressive and art rock. The relationship between the band and today's music industry is ambivalent, at times marked by censorship and the bandmembers' insistence on privacy.

Please reply at the FAC page, thank you. Johnnyw talk 22:15, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Source for "Volto": (so that I'm not labeled as a 'vandalist/spammer' again by an incompetent: http://www.voltoband.com/main.htm