Talk:Rendlesham Forest incident

Editing required

This is article is a mess, especially in the later sections. I have deleted large chunks of unsupported supposition and repetition (including about a dozen references to the book "you can't tell the people" which were doing nothing but promoting the author). I would recommend that most of the later sections be deleted completely - I would do it myself, but there is so much in there that I would rather leave to a more experienced editor--Crais459 13:27, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

This article has some severe problems. The top section is extremely one-sided and gives no sources for rather outrageous claims such as 'small beings with domed heads leaving the spacecraft'. While I wouldn't say a citation is absolutely necessary for each claim, when one claims that news accounts detailed of alien contact and use it in a way to suggest that it is credible, then you have big credibility problems when you can't cite a source. How do we know it wasn't a tabloid that made the claim? I think the readers deserve to know the source so as to determine whether that source is credible or not.

I have no links, but I thought this was found to be a police car with some reflective tape and the lights on...

It does have problems. The story was indeed used in the tabloids. According to the files (www.foi.mod.uk) some of the documents received by the MoD were thought to be forgeries and the reference to the "locals" actually means local Forestry Commission (government) officials. The RAF reported that they had been asked to check their radar and their logs showed that nothing was found. In summary it was probably a combination of the lighthouse, forestry commission tree markings and rabbits. I am tempted to alter this despite my wikitroll detector giving off warning signals... Wiki-Ed 12:14, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe the issue is whether it was an actual UFO. The issue is what was reported at the time and where it was reported. If, like in Roswell, the newspaper claimed it was a UFO, that should be mentioned along with a reference to the paper with the article. If the story was later recanted, like in Roswell, that should be mentioned as well.Nealparr 4 January 2006

I agree — the article should stick to what was reported and where it appeared, plus documentary evidence. Some of the details seem unlikely even to have been reported. For instance, the mention of a cattle stampede is a bit farfetched. There are not many cattle in Rendlesham — the word "forest" is the clue to this one. The land in that area is really too poor to support cattle: the soil consists of a few millimitres of topsoil, then dry sand. The natural vegetation is gorse, ferns, silver birch, heather and some very poor grass, but not enough for herds of cattle! Bluewave 18:29, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Investigation

to get more info i say there needs to be questions asked to the parties involed that night (i know sci-fi channel did) but maybe they will tell under pressure action should be taken immediatly

^ What in the hell? --^pirate 13:22, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I was a Security Policeman at Bentwaters/Woodbridge at that time. There was no rumors or scuttlebutt about this incident at all. Considering how boring guard duty is and how much time there we spent together, it is hard for me to put any credence in the story at all.

Then what is this bull crud about incident! Dr. Mahogany

Believers Section

I deleted a chunk of it and reworded some of the rest. Honestly, I tried to save the content, but it was so ridiculously POV, that the entire mess practically just needs to be completely re-written. There was very little content and about twelve positive adjectives to a sentence describing a particular author's work. I could've deleted some things that were actually worthwhile, but I saw no way to save the section as it was. Feel free to tweak around and salvage the section if anyone wants to (without repeating the constant insertions of positive adjectives every other syllable just to try to puff up the credentials of those supporting your own view). --Jakob Huneycutt 13:52, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Bias

This is really a very conspiracy-theory focussed article. The Porton Down one has similar issues. Rsynnott 00:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Attempt at improvement, 7 April 2006

I have done quite substantial rewrite of the article which seemed disorganised and not always informative.

• Some restructuring with some additional headings
• I have tried to make the first few paragraphs into more of a summary of the remainder of the article
• More about the location
• More details about the primary evidence, including the complete transcript of the crucuial Halt memo
• Taken out some stuff that relates to other UFO incidents but seemed very confused with this one (eg Watton)
• Taken out "evidence" from works of fiction (eg Nick Pope's book Operation Thunderchild was a novel!)
• Tried to improve the balance and distinguish the evidence from the speculation

I hope this is an improvement, but if someone else thinks they can make a better fist of it, please go ahead! Bluewave 14:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

More reasons to be sceptical

1) If this phenomina went on for 2-3 hours as is claimed, then why didnt anyone photograph it or (Super8) film it? There were hundreds if not thousands of Americans and their families living on or near the bases, which were not just airfields but also included housing estates for families, and I cannot believe that no photos of films would be taken if it did actually occur.

2) The description of the event is much more elaborate and detailed than descriptions I have heard in past years. It has has been elaborated and added to.

3) I have lived in that area most of my life. In the early seventies I was camping with some teenage friends near the bases. After dark we saw that a fire had broken out in the woods near the bases. It looked like a tree had caught alight. Fires like this are common in the area during the summer. We soon saw the americans were taking a lot of interest in it, flying helicopters near it to look at it and so on. If a UFO had been sighted, then a similar amount of interest would have been shown, yet there are no reports of this.

A large glowing red object the size of a small bedroom, and a thick beam of white light coming straight down to within three feet of where Halt himself was standing, was reported on the transcript tape itself. This is not a case of forest fire. --Chr.K. 19:52, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, if you've heard the tape, it doesn't sound like a forest fire or anything else. Multiple people see the object(s), describing it (them) as red and pulsing yellow, moving erratically, being crescent moon shaped with a dark centre, pieces "breaking off" twice, and a beam of light coming down. They also describe heat signatures coming from some trees around the "suspected landing site" as they put it, with a "blast area" in the centre.

Structuring of the article

I noticed some recent edits by 80.47.19.21 (who may be Ian Ridpath, given the comments added with the edits). Back in April I did some restructuring of what had previously been a very confused article and I am keen that, with controversial material like this, we keep a logical structure (though not necessarily the one I came up with). The danger is that one person writes about what supposedly happened; someone else adds a sceptical explanation to the end of their sentence; someone else adds on a bit more defending the original; and you end up with a verbal spaghetti. I was trying to separate it into:

• Summary of the article up front without going deeply into the arguments.
• Setting the scene. When, where etc. This should be fact (though I missed the mistake with the lighthouse!)
• The story as it is generally told. Difficult, because there are several versions. But at this point I didn't want to introduce all the rationalisations etc.
• The evidence without comment. eg things like the animal noises were reported (even though I'm personally sceptical - but this is not the part of the article to say so)
• The main sceptical views of the evidence.
• A survey of the analysis by different commentators

Given that Ian (if it is indeed him) is actively reviewing the article, this may be a good point in time to review the structure and see if we can improve on it. However, I'm very keen that we separate the evidence from the arguments. Bluewave 09:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

>>> Yes, it was me who made some amendments recently. I was impressed by the speed with which you corrected the map which misplaced the Orford lighthouse after I pointed it out. Overall, I think you have done a creditable job of presenting a balanced view of this highly complex case. Dave Clarke, another researcher, may also be making some amendments to the section about the release of official documents. I am happy to answer questions by email. Ian R, 2006 October 6.

Communicating with aliens

In the 28 December section, it says

It has been rumoured that small beings with domed heads left the craft, and that twin base commander Gordon Williams claimed to have made sign language communication with the aliens. These rumours have no evidence to back them up, and come from unconfirmed reports.

Did Gordon Williams claim this, or is it rumoured that he claimed it? that's the problem with sticking "claimed" and "supposed" everywhere - the original meaning gets lost. Totnesmartin 20:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Recent happenings?

Whats the scenario now? Does the forest still have reports about sightings of unusual creatures/entites? Supposedly the locals have seen all sorts of weird creatures in the forest. Animal hybrids/unidentified creatures? What gives?

To be fair to the locals, I think that very few, if any, of the reports of the incident and its aftermath are attributed to them - certainly none of the more extreme ones. Such reports generally originate from the more gullible people who are unfamiliar with the area, not the locals. Bluewave 08:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced statement

Some anon person just added this:

It has been reported that the then-Commander-in-Chief United States Air Forces Europe, General Charles A. Gabriel was present at RAF Bentwaters at the time of the incident and that he was provided two tape recordings of the event.

No source for this statement was given. Totnesmartin 20:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Shipwash lightship

Can anyone confirm the location of the lightship (which would be a useful addition to the article)? I believe it was replaced by a buoy sometime in the intervening period. A friend of mine with the Admiralty chart gave me a position for the North Shipwash Buoy as 52deg 1.730'N 1deg 38.272'E but I am not certain that this is the buoy that replaced the lightship, nor indeed if the replacement was put in exactly the same place. However, if it is, and it was, that would place the lightship about 10 miles southeast of Orford village (based on sticking those co-ordinates into Google maps). I'll try some other contacts to see if anyone has an older chart that would show the lightship. Any other ideas? Bluewave 15:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

My information is that the Shipwash lightship was at 52 deg 02.0' N, 1 deg 42.1' E. It emitted three flashes over 20 seconds (0.3 sec flash, 2.2 sec dark; 0.3 sec flash, 2.2 sec dark; 0.3 sec flash, 14.7 sec dark). Its range was about 24 miles against the 30 miles of Orford. The flash rate of Orford was 0.2 sec every 5 sec. Being some way offshore the Shipwash light would have appeared far less bright to anyone standing in Rendlesham Forest than the Orford light, which is by far the brightest light visible from that location. Ian Ridpath 2007 July 24.

The information I have in writing from Trinity House is that the position of the Shipwash LV (in 1980) was Lat 52 deg 02.03 min North and Long 01 deg 42.05 min East. This was discontinued on 25 Oct 1993. There is now a much less powerful light near to this location, called North Shipwash. According to Trinity House, this is a North Cardinal Lighted Buoy with a quick flashing white light (i.e. 60 flashes per minute). The stated location of this light (in 2000) was Lat 52 deg 01.70 min North and Long 01 deg 36.20 min East. I do not know if it has moved slightly since then to the location you quote.Robertmclean2 00:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Sound of a woman screaming

The article says that Burroughs reported a noise "like a woman was screaming". I went for a walk in Rendlesham forest at the weekend and, like Mr Burroughs, I heard a noise like a woman screaming. She was quickly joined by some other wailing sounds. These were very loud, powerful, an unearthly...and of course were being made by deer. Very scary sound, though! Bluewave 16:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

An instructive comment, Bluewave. I never have understood why so much has been made of this 'screaming' business and have always understood deer to be the most likely source (foxes can also make an awful screeching but that tends to happen a couple of months later, in the mating season). Alternatively, I suppose UFOs could now be piloted by ladettes out on the razzle. They would scream a lot, if they are anything like the earthlings around closing time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skeptic2 (talk • contribs) 18:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this noise is made by Muntjac deer, also known as Barking deer, and they really do sound like a woman screaming. This was reported in James Easton's "Voyager Newsletter" No 15 in October 2000.Robertmclean2 00:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)