Talk:Juan Perón

Juan Peron Talk Archive/1

Placed the POV tag

The previous talk page was rather lengthy, so I took the liberty of archiving it. I don't know if I did a very good job with the archiving. If someone else can do a better job, please do.

That aside, I placed a POV tag at the top of this page. I placed it there because while it is true that Juan Peron allowed Nazi criminals into Argentina, it is also true that he himself was not anti-Semitic, did not molest the Jewish community but allowed it to flourish, and that one of his allies in Peronism was José Ber Gelbard, a Jewish man. And Peronism itself contained no anti-Semitism. There were no concentration camps in Argentina.

When told without nuance, the recounting of Juan Peron's allowence of Nazi criminals into the country can paint an unfair portrait of him. As previous editors have mentioned, Germany has deep roots in Argentina that predate Juan Peron and also post-date Juan Peron. Also, it was not only Juan Peron who granted political asylum to Nazi refugees. As is mentioned in the article for ratlines, Nazi criminals made their way into many countries, perhaps the United States and Canada. (It should also be noted that there was an American Nazi Party in the United States and that in the beginning the United States government had also supported Hitler and Mussolini. And apparently there is evidence that Prescott Bush, grandfather of the current president of the United States, collaborated with the Nazis as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush#Nazi_collaboration .) Also, while it is true that Juan Peron had sided with the Axis powers, it is also true that when Argentina did enter the war, they declared war against Germany.

When presented without nuance and historical context, the fact that Juan Peron allowed Nazi criminals into the country can make it appear that he himself agreed with what happened in the Holocaust and he himself was an anti-Semite. And then this is used as leverage in the anti-Peronist argument that Peron himself was a monster. But the nuanced truth is that while Juan Peron did allow Nazis into the country and had sided with the Axis, he himself was not anti-Semitic and did not slaughter Jewish people. Juan Peron's Argentina established diplomatic relations with Israel in 1948.

If this is to truly be a neutral article, then it must contains both sides of the story. Until then, this is a POV article giving an inaccurate and unfair portrait of Juan Peron. My suggestion is that a section called "Juan Peron and the Jewish population of Argentina" be created to balance out the section about the ratlines.

Thank you.

Argentine lad (talk) 21:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I have written the following section for this article. If this article or any of its editors have hopes of retaining Wikipedia's policy of neutrality, then it is only right that this side of the story be shared and this section remain. These are verifiable third-party, reputable and notable sources:

==Juan Perón and the Jewish community of Argentina==

Further information: History of the Jews in Argentina

Prior to his assent to power in Argentina, the Jewish population in Argentina was the largest Jewish population in Latin America. After becoming president of Argentina, Juan Perón sought out the Jewish community for participation in his government, and one of his advisors was a Jewish man from Poland named José Ber Gelbard. Because Peronism contains no anti-Semitic or other racial bias, there were no concentration camps in Juan Perón's Argentina. The Jewish Virtual Library writes that while Juan Perón had sympathized with the Axis powers, "Perón also expressed sympathy for Jewish rights and established diplomatic relations with Israel in 1949. Since then, more than 45,000 Jews have immigrated to Israel from Argentina." In the book Inside Argentina from Peron to Menem author Laurence Levine, former president of the US-Argentine Chamber of Commerce, writes: "although anti-Semitism existed in Argentina, Perón's own views and his political associations were not anti-Semitic.... And while Juan Perón's Argentina allowed many Nazi criminals to take refuge in Argentina, Juan Perón's Argentina also accepted more Jewish immigrants than any other country in Latin America, which in part accounts for the fact that Argentina to this day has a population of over 200,000 Jewish citizens, the largest in Latin America and one of the largest in the world.

Argentine lad (talk) 22:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Regarding this section of the article I have a couple of comments and few edits. First,Argentine lad did quite a job in finding quotes and sourcing this section. Now for the comments:

In General. Unless I missed it, the article before the edit didn't accuse Peron of being an antisemite and from the historians I've read I don't recall such accusation, so I don't get the point of writing a section trying to refute something that it doesn't seem to be an issue. Actually brings the reader to the question that he might have been accused of being an antisemite if such a section exists. I would like to know other editors opinion on this. In light of all the work the editor went through to add it, I will not start a whole edit war on the whole section. But IMHO the whole section is unnecessary. It will be like adding another section on Peron and the Italians, Peron and the Irish, etc.

In particular. 1. Highlighting opinions of Page, describing Peron as a "pacifist", is highly POV. It is Page opinion on Peron and not a fact. We can start quoting authors left and right on the subject without bring any light on the issue. I propose deleting that quote. 2. "Perón sought out the Jewish community for participation in his government", the point that Gelbard was a close confidant doesn't mean that he sought out the whole community. More evidence on this is needed to include that sentence. 3. "Because Peronism, the political philosophy Juan Perón developed, contains no anti-Semitic or other racial bias, there were no concentration camps in Perón's Argentina" Of course there were no concentration camps in Argentina. I don't understand why to include that. 4. Time Magazine writes "in practice the Perón regime resembled hardly at all the defeated European fascist dictatorships." The sourced article actually argues Peron's closer associations with the fascist. Wronk link? 5. "Juan Perón allowed Nazi criminals into the country in hopes of acquiring advanced German technology developed during the war" Which technology was Eichman an expert in?. That theory doesn't hold. 6. Eva's photo belongs in Eva's wiki not here.

In summary my opinion is that the whole section should be deleted. But for now, I will just make these changes. Bakersville (talk) 22:18, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I have replaced the paragraphs in their entirety save for the picture of Eva Peron (despite the fact that it is perhaps not that outrageous to think that the man's wife and closest political partner would be shown on his article). You had no right to remove what you removed. And you have no right to say that the works of Joseph Page and Tomas Eloy Martinez do not deserve to be on this page. Martinez is director of Latin American studies at Rutger's University. Page's biography of Juan Peron [1] is a major work and a former best seller.

The reason it is necessary to have a section like this on Juan Peron's page is because in the English speaking world people have a misperception of him as being a Nazi, and this is enhanced by there being an entire section about him allowing Nazis into Argentina. The argument could very easily be made that this is a minor aspect of his career and legacy and deserves perhaps a sentence or two in his biography, not an entire section. And I notice that the Spanish language section has absolutely NO reference to him allowing Nazis into the country. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Domingo_Per%C3%B3n So, it becomes apparent that this is an aspect of his story with a cultural focus. In the English speaking world it seems to be a big deal that he allowed Nazis into the country. In Latin America, in the Spanish speaking world, it is such a non-issue that it isn't even mentioned in his biography.

So, I ask, why is this section necessary about allowing Nazis into Argentina? If you believe that section is necessary, then why is it not necessary to have another section that puts the whole situation into a larger context, explaining that German culture is deep in Argentina and pre-dates Juan Peron?

But forgive me for thinking that it was the goal of a Wikipedia article on Juan Peron to be an article about Juan Peron. Argentine lad (talk) 09:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)