Talk:Vulva

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Off-Topic Discussions Archive 2 (Sep 2003 to Mar 2007)

Clitoral Piercing Necessary?

Is it really necessary to have clitoral piercing in this article? I propose that it be merged with body modification or some other article of the sort, clitoral hood piercing is not practiced universally in the human spectrum, and is in fact practiced by a small minority of humans. I know wikipedia is not censored, even though that is likely the first response I will get. I am merely stating that a section on piercing of the clitoral hood is fluff to this article on the vulva, and is hardly encyclopedic. It is more suited to an article including its cultural ramifications, because an article on the vulva should be about the vulva and not about things cultures subject it to. It seems to me the clitoral hood piercing image is just there to spark more debate about wikipedia being censored. Also, the current vulva image including the woman's wet fingers is of genitals in an excited state and may be obscene under Florida law (which is where the servers are located.) Furthermore, this may be confusing to an uninformed reader, as the articles intention is not to depict the mechanisms of lubrication of the vulva. I think the article should be trimmed to focus on the basic anatomical structures and any additional information within reason be merged to other articles. Whiteknight521 (talk) 22:35, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

The section the image is being used in is about the alternation of the Vulva, of which the clitoral hood is a part of. As for the last part, I'm not sure which image of which you're referring.--Honeymane_{Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam} 08:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Circumcision is not practiced universally, but its still in the penis article. And I can't really tell if her vulva is stimulated or not, it just looks like it was being stretched to show the inside. Her fingers are probably wet with an artifical lubricant to make the stretching more comfortable. Besides, we have pictures of erect penises on Wikipedia, that's not obscene. Asarelah (talk) 16:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

In which case I would also argue that circumcision be a separate article; circumcision is not a definitive characteristic of the male genitals, nor is clitoral hood piercing a definitive characteristic of the female genitals. Furthermore I would be willing to wager that less than 1% of the world's female population has a clitoral hood piercing, while a much larger percentage of males have been circumcised. Circumcision originated for medical and religious purposes (the former of which have all but been debunked,) while clitoral hood piercing seems to be a cultural phenomenon that is done for asthetic purposes. I just think its inclusion is superfluous to the vital information of the article. If we are going to allow that picture, we will have to allow pictures of any possible modification to the vulva no matter how obscure. With this precedent the article will become increasingly lengthy due to inclusion of all possible medical procedures, asthetic procedures, and visual characteristics of the vulva. I just think elements of the article are far too specific for a single article. 68.61.37.27 (talk) 18:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

"Something shameful to be hidden"

Western cultures have commonly viewed the vulva as something shameful to be hidden . . .

I wonder about the "shameful" aspect. Is it not rather an object of modesty -- as opposed to shame? I am not in any way ashamed of my sexual organs, but I'm very reluctant to show them to other people. I avoid group showers, for example.

• sigh* perhaps an article on Modesty is in order?

In my opinion, yes it is. There is propensity in our society to view virtues as shameful, which seems inherently contradictory to me. As a witness to this, I note the almost violent reaction to teaching abstinence by a very vocal group in our society. Perhaps the 'popular' understanding of shame/freudian psychology is the source. I'm not sure.

Um,'Virtues' are relative. Just because you've been raised to believe in certain virtues doesn't mean anything else than that you have been raised to believe in certain virtues. Abstinence for the sake of abstinence (as in religiously motivated) is insanity in my world.

Relativism is popular, not necessarily true. Does the fact that people behave differently discount any objective discussion of morals?

pardon me. but I don't even understand why we're talking about cultural stuff here. Yes. it's true that many cultures around the world think that vulvas should be hidden in public. However, I don't think somebody uploaded the photo to be immoral or offensive but posted it for people who visit this page to learn about it with clear and actual photo, which I think is necessary and helpful. This page isn't about morality or taboo but for human anatomy and it's good to have a photo for subject like this for better understanding it, I believe. davidmj926 16:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

excuse me...but WHY do you take pornographic pictures of woman's bodies and post it on the internet. in my opinion it's disgusting and shameful and personally i think you are criminals.You could be charged by police and i have saved the webpage so you better be careful. thank you.(Please go buy some morals)--Nasty Picture70.53.60.57 22:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Its perfectly legal to put a picture of a vulva on the Internet. And even if it were "pornography", well guess what...Internet pornography is perfectly legal too! Asarelah 17:19, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, first off, this is not pornography from my standpoint, but that's a fine point and I'll leave it alone. The real answer to you question is: this is an encyclopedia whose goal is to be a repository for human knowledge. That's "human knowledge", not "human knowledge that some particular subset of humans consider acceptable". If you have a picture that better illustrates the subject, please share it with us. -Harmil 05:28, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

lol --Huffers 02:09, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I wonder why did you come to this entry if you are so chastise ;) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.39.21.94 (talk • contribs) .

It's what every human female body basically has and the image is just for helping people to understand how it really looks, rather than just a simple drawing. This page is NOT like one of porn sites on the internet since while you're taking it pornographic, others just see it for INFORMATIONAL purpose. You're comment is just clueless and laughable. Police? How pathetic you aredavidmj926 16:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Sex is good, but don't go out and have sex with just anyone. If you are married, have sex with your wife/husband. Save sex for marriage. It'll get you good results. You may not even get divorced.

That may be your opinion, but that does not represent Wikipedia's idea of a Neutral Point of View. Laerwen 23:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a page for vulva. not sex or marriage.davidmj926 16:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

And, I just can't stop laughing my ass off at your clueless and brainless comment. hahahahaha. OK, Vulvas are what every human female body basically has and the image is just for helping people to understand how it really looks, rather than just a simple drawing. GET THIS CLEARLY:This page is NOT a porn page on the internet like you think, because while you're taking it pornographic, others just see it for INFORMATIONAL purpose. davidmj926 10:23, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I suspect a troll. In any case, ironically that IP looks up to Canada which AFAIK has fairly liberal laws on sexuality and pornography compared to, for example, the religious US Nil Einne 16:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

There are some dumb, dumb people in the world (referring to the prude claiming arrests are in order). Also, never having sex with someone until you're married sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Picture update.

The labeled picture of the female genetalia is WRONG! It swaps the clitoris with the urethra. I know, I have one, I know where my pee comes out. This picture is wrong!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.17.79 (talk) 17:54, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

:( Honest to god, if I hadn't seen the pictures of vaginas here on wiki I still would have thought that my urethra... was my clit. My bf laughed at me. I'm not joking. 00:58, 23 February 2008 (UTC) Ignorant with no images —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.78.20.197 (talk)

That picture is revolting!

I replaced the second diagram with a drawn diagram taken from "The Vulvodynia Survival Guide" by Howard I. Glazer, Ph.D. I chose this picture over the other because, for the most obvious reasons, it's better detailed, less questionable, and far less offensive. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Massacabre (talk • contribs) 18:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

There was nothing "offensive" about the pictures. If you find these articles offensive either don't look them up in the first place, or please discuss your problems here on the talk page before blanking information. --Nigelj 22:24, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that there are photos on wikimedia commons under the section Female_genitalia that better show the vulva than the current picture. SophieRachel 17:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't the article's photograph have pubic hair like that naturally occurring on the human female? Rdr0 00:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

- I agree. It should. DCEvoCE 19:37, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I just replaced it with an image already in Wikimedia Commons, but if anyone has a better one feel free to replace it. Rdr0 20:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Scent?

Should something perhaps be mentioned about the particular scent of vulvas? From my experience, it's pretty distinct. Do penises also have a certain smell? I dunno. I just thought I'd bring it up. CerealBabyMilk 02:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Jesus, this an encyclopedia, not a porn magazine.--Kamikaze 10:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I think there should be something on scent. No, penises dont useually have a smell like vulvas do. I also think the section should include vaginal discharge as from what I understand thease are related and also related to the menstral cycle, as the scent and colour/viscosity of vaginal discharge changes according to the different stages of the menstral cycle and can also indicate infections of the vulva. I dont understand the comment about porn magazine. SophieRachel 17:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I too don't understand how your only contributions are related to vagina or vulva. Probably someone eager to show they're supported ? --Kamikaze 17:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyways, just to be specific, I don't think the scent thing is notable enough to be included in an encyclopedia. It's sure not notable enough to be mentioned in medical studies on vulva.--Kamikaze 17:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Kamikaze, I only just started recentley, and I am a student with not much time, and I had to start somewhere, so I started helping here. youll see more of me in other places related to the body and health later when I have more time. SophieRachel 01:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why this wouldn't be considered notable as long as there's a source for the information. There certainly is ample information out there on "abnormal" odours, which is good but makes it harder to find info on "normal" ones. In my experience and reading the penis can also have a distinct smell not dissimilar to that of the vulva. Sebaceous glands glands in the clitoral hood and foreskin seem to play a part in this; sometimes they are removed in circumcision in males. It would be interesting to know which chemical components are contributing the most to genital scents; maybe some of them are pheremones or sex hormones?--Eloil 14:55, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

You should also point out the sources that prove its notability. If you find them, of course.--Kamikaze 18:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Penises do have a certain smell, especially if they're uncircumcised. Also, the scrotum tends to sweat freely so, that adds some smell too. Hope that helps. 156.34.212.227 (talk) 02:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Stolen image

It would seem that the image "Sarahvulva crop.jpg", used in the article, might have been stolen from this amature porn site. see the post at Image talk:Sarahvulva crop.jpg#Possibility that the image was stolen for more information.151.203.184.11 20:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I've removed the image from the article. It shouldn't be hard to get a replacement photo. Robotman¹⁹⁷⁴ 20:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

What about the various versions (labeled/unlabeled/cropped/uncropped) of the image that are still on the on the Wikimedia Commons? shouldn't they be deleted? 151.203.184.11 20:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

They certainly should, but that will have to be discussed on Wikimedia Commons. If there are any other articles here on Wikipedia that include those images, they should have the images taken out as well. Robotman¹⁹⁷⁴ 21:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Do I get to say "I told you so" now? :-) Nandesuka 21:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The fact that the image was probably stolen was broght up on the talk pages of several versions of the image at the Commons see here, but there has been no response...151.203.184.11 22:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm on it :) Speedy deletions at commons aren't all that speedy... patience please :). --SB_Johnny|^talk|_books 23:41, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I knew there was something odd about that user. Who asks random people if they want pictures of his naked wife?- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 04:55, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Linkimage

Template:Linkimage has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 22:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The colour wine?

Does a womans vulva really turn from red to wine at the plateu stage? Hmmm

wtf? --BiT 11:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the exact coloring varies, but it does tend to get darker.CerealBabyMilk 13:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Why are these edits considered questionable?

In the section about genital alteration I added a link to an existing phrase, a couple of "also known as", and a gloss. I also attempted a more worldwide perspective. All of these were reverted, with the edit summary that they were "questionable". I don't see why. Please could a more detailed discussion be opened up here.

Also, I wish I knew how to do that thing that provides a link to show what the two edits look like. Any helpful ideas for this WikiGnome? BrainyBabe 22:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

remove picture

remove the picture Origin-of-the-World.jpg that thing is just scary

Wikipedia is not censored. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 15:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I know but talk about shock images

you do realize it's a 1860s painting, right?--Honeymane_{Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam} 04:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

The internet is not for the prudish. Conservapedia may be more to your liking. Trollderella 23:25, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing "shocking" or "scary" about a simple painting of a human vulva, especially not in the context of an article about the vulva. Wikipedia is not censored. Also, please sign your posts using for tildes. Instructions on how to do so are on the top of the talk page when you edit it. Thank you. Asarelah 01:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC).

The scary thing is that the Origin of the World has more pubic hair than an Armenian. Can't we have sexier, more airbrushed illustrations? Perhaps with some captions describing their hobbies...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.167.167.125 (talk) 23:38, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Airbrushed illustrations would not be realistic. This article is to show how vulvas generally look, not how people wish that they would look. Asarelah 23:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Wouldnt it be nice if they looked nicer in a way tho lol. Origin of the world is quite scary but should be kept as a 19th century painting Stui 19:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

wikipeia is not censored, but that image should be--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 09:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing "scary" about the painting. As for the amount of pubic hair depicted by the artist, it isn't unusual, and since the vulva in the first photograph has very little hair (and the last one none), the painting balances it out quite nicely.Shadowcrow 02:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

*sigh* And men wonder why women have so many issues with their bodies. A vulva in its natural state is considered "scary" and ugly. Very sad.Asarelah 02:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

If anything the pictures of the vulvae with little or no pubic hair should be removed, because they don't portray how vulvae actually look naturally. It's like the article for Human would only include pictures of people who've had a lot of cosmetic surgery and breast augmentations, or people who've suffered disfiguring and deforming accidents. --BiT 03:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about that, BiT...isn't it important to show the Cleft of venus without the hair getting in the way? Would you object to a shaved head in the article about the human scalp? Asarelah 04:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I am a girl, and that image is a painting, it should be a picture--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 12:56, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

then go take a picture of your vagina and put it up here 64.15.147.181 (talk) 04:39, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

sure, butwhat is wikipedia's rule on uploading a picture of a 16 year olds vulva?--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 05:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Erm...I wouldn't do that if I were you. People (such as your parents!) would probably react badly if you're under 18, even if it is for clinical purposes. Besides, there are already pictures in the article. Asarelah (talk) 18:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

i was being sarcastic--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 12:00, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, good. You never can tell on the Internet. (I've heard people say weirder things on talk pages, believe me.) Asarelah (talk) 16:27, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

same here--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 03:54, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Some parts of this discussion made me laugh, even though there were valid points. Just reminds me of one of the reasons why I love Wikipedia... Although, it's also a pain, of course, due to vandals. Flyer22 (talk) 05:10, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm removing this picture because it is not notable nor necessary on this encyclopedic page. If you want to fulfill your fantasies, do it elsewhere. This is not a matter of censorship, which Wikipedia is not of course. And just because a picture exists and may be "art" doesn't mean it needs to be included in this particular article for any reason - only if you want to get your kicks from having it here. It's totally inappropriate. You come up with all the excuses you want, but keep in mind this article doesn't belong to you - it is for everyone. Some images are included, some are not. You do not need everything under the sun to be included. If you want to find pictures about much pubic hair, go to the image search on google or something. We are tired of debating these ridiculous pictures that wild people perpetually maintain and insist belong on Wikipedia, for their own strange reasons. WP:Notability (and do read this response fully before inevitably attacking me WP:AGF? still - just be civil )~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 20:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention this picture has been included by some user who wants to have their way fly on this article. The painter - I forget his name just now - is not even talked about again anywhere else in the article. The picture is completely random and not placed in the right section anyway. I mean, it's bad enough that some pierced vulva picture is included. Why show these things? Just because you are able to? People have imaginations; we don't need images that are not needed and actually offend many. I would hope that there are not people just sitting around waiting for someone to remove the picture just to undo that removal (oh WP:AGF again, sorry) the point remains though. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 20:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It is not "obscene", it is informative and relevant. I remind you that Wikipedia is not censored. We do not remove images purely on the basis that they offend people. Period. This has been debated into the ground. I also resent your implication that I and the other editors who want it there are trying to "fulfill fantasies" or "get our kicks" and characterize us as "wild people". You are not assuming good faith, and you are being incivil. I have put the picture back in the article. 20:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Note I already addressed your points and know well the policies, as I stated also. Repetition is not necessary. That's why I cited WP:AGF, for I was having more of a conversation - take it as you will. You say it is relevant but you do not say why. Sure any picture can be informative, such as a tissue box on the tissue article, but please explain how this is relevant - just because it has to do with the vulva doesn't give good grounds to include it in this article. There are millions of pictures quite possibly of the vulva, so what makes this one so much more relevant than the others? Like I said before - the artist and his/her painting is not even mentioned in the article - so where is this relevance - mind you relevance enough to pass the notability test? ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 21:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Adding on, it would be "civil" to stop reverting these removals and starting edit wars (which is against WP policy) until there is some sort of consensus. Bickering won't get us anywhere - and edit wars don't solve, they just make problems worse. The pattern I have noticed on wikipedia is that every time there is a picture that offend people and people do not find it worthy of inclusion in the article, the "pro" side always wins. Why is that? It's not uncivil - it's thoroughness at the very very least. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 21:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not starting an edit war. If you read this talk page and its archives, you will find that consensous was built to keep pictures of vulvas on this article. That picture is relevant because it shows a vulva, which is the subject of this article. Just as the article for Hair shows pictures of hair, just as the article for nose shows a nose, this article for Vulva shows a picture of its subject, the vulva. If you are merely taking issue with it on the basis that you believe is an inferior picture of a vulva, then by all means, please find a better public domain picture of a vulva, upload it, and insert it in. But do not accuse fellow editors of putting the painting in because they are "wild people" and want to "fulfill fantasies". You were out of line. As for your belief that it is unfair that the pro side wins in arguements that pictures such as that one are obscene and therefore do not belong in the article, I would like to point out to you WP:NOTCENSORED is offical policy on this encyclopedia. They win the arguements because the people who want to censor these articles are trying go against Wikipedia's policy. If you don't like the policy, advocate to get it changed, but don't come bursting in here and demand that we ignore it because you don't like it. Asarelah (talk) 21:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah... very good points; well-taken. No need to take offense, I was not trying to personally attack you. I have just seen so many of these perpetual debates is all. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 05:53, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

This article is doctor recommended

This article is doctor recommended. WAS 4.250 (talk) 17:25, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Why the unencyclopaedic tag?

What - an encyclopaedia isn't meant to cover subjects starting with V? I'm tempted to simply remove it, but is that protocol? Gordon Findlay (talk) 00:54, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:Bold. I removed them. No reason given to include them. Gillyweed (talk) 01:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

List of disorders

Is the list of disorders given in the section on Disorders affecting the vulva worth including? There is a link to the ICD-10 codes, which duplicates them, and is more extensive. I have tried to justify the inclusion by defining the list as "most significant" disorders, but that is just a weasel word. Gordon Findlay (talk) 08:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Image:Vagina-anatomy-labelled2.jpg

This image should be removed:

1) The spelling of "minora" is incorrect 2) Tbe picture displays atypical genitalia (grossly large vagina) 3) Picture appears to have been lifted from a pornography site —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.151.177 (talk) 20:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

1) Indeed. You are as free as anyone to change it.

2) I don't exactly carry a Vernier scale to my dates, but then again, does it really have to be typical? No two vulvae look alike. But the picture is good, It shows lots of details. A picture like that is a lot more informative for the layperson than a diagram. Did you ever think "but what does it really look like?" back in sex ed? --GSchjetne (talk) 20:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

1) The text looks as if it were part of the picture, and therefore hard to change. 2) The vagina does seem strangely large to me as well. This article isn't about vaginas, after all, so we don't actually have to see inside it. 3) Is it lifted from a pornography site? It certainly looks rather pornographic, with the woman's fingers and much of the mons pubis visibly (and rather inexplicably), well, wet. Shadowcrow (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I replaced it with the picture from the vagina-page. I think this one fits better.--Lamilli (talk) 11:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I propose to the community this one I made: Image:Vulva labeled no tags.jpg. — STAR TREK Man ^{[Space, the final frontier...]} 13:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored ;D--Anteriormente (talk) 00:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The intent is encyclopaedic and for practical knowledge, not for your sexual excitation. Im not amused. — STAR TREK Man ^{[Space, the final frontier...]} 11:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

age of female in vulva picture

Hi This vulva does not look much like the vulvas I have seen 'face to vulva' or like the vulvas I have seen in pics. I suspect that at the time that pic was taken the female was legally a child. Dannygjk (talk) 07:50, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree...that vag is extremely small to be an adult's, or even a teen's. elisa^talk. 15:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm..there isn't any hair or even stubble. Maybe we should get rid of it. Asarelah (talk) 21:06, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Guessing the age of a model based on a photo is a tricky business, and easily gotten wrong. I was all set to ignore this issue, but when I looked at the contributor's other photos at Commons I see that at least one of them was deleted due to concerns about the model possibly being underage. This concerns me. For now, I've removed this image from the article, and we should look for another (free, uncopyrighted, clearly adult) illustration to replace it. Nandesuka (talk) 22:03, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

There was a more appropriate image on the Vagina page that can be used. Nandesuka (talk) 22:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I presume that there in the North America/"First World" the books about pediatric gynecology are not allowed to show photographs of the vulvas of the female children. Yes, the bourgeois legislators are ridiculous, and the ones who like to obey them without an explicit protest are even more ridiculous. But oh, yeah... "Wikipedia is not censored"... Pffft... KSM-2501ZX, IP address:= 200.155.188.4 (talk) 22:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Start-class

Hello. Does this article still has to be rated as a start-Class on the assessment scale of the wikiprojects? — STAR TREK Man ^{[Space, the final frontier...]} 10:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Import Picture from German Article

What about importing this picture from the German Article? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Vulva_crop.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.180.165.144 (talk) 22:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

It's a stretch to say it adds anything in addition to the pictures that are already there. It's similar to the piercing pic, albeit without a piercing. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)