Talk:Barrett's Privateers

Is the Main Truck the base of one of the 4# guns, as the author asserts, or the piece of the rigging known as the main trunk. Assuming a ship-rigged main mast (a not un-reasonable assumption, since doing otherwise assumes a fairly complex and exotic rig, for the time period, which is at odds with the rest of the description of an old and mangled vessel), the main truck would have been the device which connected the main-top mast to main mast. If the rigging was struck, then the main truck could crash down crushing the captain's legs. - Dastal 21:50, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I wish I was in Sherbrooke now

I was told we'd sail the sea for American gold, we'd fire no guns, shed no teeaarrssss, now I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, the laaast of Barrett's Privateeeeeeeeers.

23rd year

I see that another anon has re-introduced a fencepost error I fixed earlier. The song lyrics say "Here I lay in me 23rd year." It's easy to misinterpret that as his age being 23, but it really means that the speaker is currently 22 years of age, not 23. He will turn 23 at the end of his 23rd year, just as a baby in his first year will turn one at the end of the year and is not one year of age yet. I've added an HTML comment in the hope that future editors won't repeat the mistake. 216.75.189.154 02:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I blame Bill Gates, for this. He's made it possible for any moron, who can push an "on" button, to use a computer and access the 'net. 8-( 99.244.246.219 04:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how to comment on the above post but it's main "truck". It refers, though, to a piece, at the top of a mast; in this case, the main mast. Not, though, "the device which connected the main-top mast to main mast". It's, actually, for reeving halyards through and flags and/or pennants are, typically, attached to it.

While four pounders would be "truck" mounted, no part of the mount would be referred to as "main". Also, use of "the" indicates there was one, while the "four pounders" are plural. 99.244.246.219 04:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

"cracked" four pounders?

Does Fogarty's Cove have an actual lyric sheet that shows this spelled as "cracked," or does Roger's performance definitely sound like there's an "-ed" ending?

I only know this song from a local group's arrangement, not Rogers' original, but I thought I've always heard the lyric as "crack four-pounders," as in first-rate, lethal. For some modern examples of the idiom with respect to guns, search for "crack" at http://www.noquartergiven.net/clash.htm. The usage dates back to the song's settings and given how well Rogers' uses authentic language, it strikes me as more than likely.

Granted, good guns might be considered out of character for the rest of the Antelope's poor condition, but cannon with actual cracks in them would likely be especially dangerous and more likely to explode after the heat of repeated firing. There is mention at http://home.gci.net/~stall/Crew%20Weapons.htm of cracked cannon being rejected as sub-standard, although that page is about manufacturing and in an explicitly naval context, not about glory-seeking fishermen taking to sea with whatever armament they could scrounge. Nevertheless, it seems far more likely that guns with cracks would have been discarded and melted down for their valuable metal, not allowed to go to sea on a fool's errand in a "scummy" privateer.

Unless there's specific documentation of "cracked" being the intended usage, I'd suggest this be changed.

And I would oppose. Googling "barrett's privateers" "cracked four" -wikipedia yields almost 600 hits; "barrett's privateers" "crack four" -wikipedia yields none (allowing "wikipedia" gives 1 hit). Without a lyric sheet to confirm or deny, the only evidence available supports "cracked", which also fits in with the tenor of the song. While you may very well be correct in your surmising, that actually constitutes original research. And don't forget to sign your posts! --SigPig |^{SEND - OVER} 08:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

In the recording on Between the Breaks ... Live! (which is a capella except for some hand-clapping near the start, and generally quite clear), the -ed ending is not pronounced very strongly, but is definitely present, especially in "Our cracked four-pounders made an awful din." I see no reason to doubt the consensus interpretation, which is that it's really "cracked" four-pounders, as in small naval guns that cast four-pound balls and have literal cracks in them. Yes, firing such a weapon would be dangerous, borderline suicidal, but I think that's quite in keeping with the other things said about the Antelope and her crew and commander. 216.75.189.154 13:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

It is "crack"; no "ed". 99.244.246.219 04:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm quite confident our narrator is talking about "crack" four-pounders. As above poster has mentioned, a cracked gun would not only not work, it would likely kill its crew. Nobody wihout a death wish would fire a cracked cannon. The argument that a google search returns more hits for "cracked" simply means that most people have misinterpreted the lyric. In the recording I have of this song (frank emerson on "Safe in the Harbour") the word is clearly "crack". I've edited the article accordingly. Dmhaglund (talk) 00:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Serving "in" a ship

The statement 'Additionally, in common naval vernacular, one serves "in" a ship and not "on" one.' is confusing. The "additionally" suggests that this is an additional problem with these theories, which it isn't. Either the "additionally" should not be there or the "in" and the "on" are backwards in that sentence and the ambiguity is confusing.

Do you really say "serving in a ship"?

"Serving in a ship" is an "Americanism" and would not be used, in the context. Also, the ships, the author refers to, didn't exist, at the time, and it's unlikely our hero would want to be on board a ship, after his ordeal and having no legs. 99.244.246.219 04:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just read the article and don't see how to start a new comment but had to mention that the author's, apparently, hard of hearing. I laughed, when I saw "The Antelope is described in the song as a sloop". I assume he misheard: "The Antelope's loot was a sickening sight". 99.244.246.219 04:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Cover versions

This has been covered by quite a few performers since it was written. A list would be good. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Sherbrooke

There has been some discussion about how the Canadian Sherbrookes didn't exist at the time of the song. Could he be referring to one overseas? Scotland, perhaps?

No, he's referring to Sherbrooke, NS, named for Sir John Coape Sherbrooke who was posted to Canada in 1784; the year our young fisherman would be singing in. Although there was a settlement as early as 1655, it did not come to be called "Sherbrooke" until 1815. A small error, on Stan's part, but give the guy a break; he was a song writer, not a historian. 99.244.246.219 04:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

"Debate"

I just removed the "Debate" section entirely. The supposed "debate" centers around slightly ambiguous terms at best and complete mis-information at worst.

As a Canadian writer describing a Canadian character, there seems little doubt that Rogers was referring to either Sherbrooke, Nova Scotia or Sherbrooke, Quebec. Unless anyone can come up with a statement from him clarifying which one he meant, it's all speculation. The fact that neither town existed in the period the song describes is irrelevant as it's a work of fiction. Given that Stan Rogers wrote the song in twenty minutes on a bar napkin (as described in Chris Gudgeon's biography of Rogers, An Unfinished Conversation: the Life and Music of Stan Rogers ISBN:0670851175), I think some minor historical inaccuracies are to be expected.

The main truck, however, is not the least bit ambiguous, and refers to the ball- disk- or bun-shaped piece of wood that is mounted on the end of the uppermost spar that makes up the mainmast of a traditionally rigged vessel (see "Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier" by Harold A. Underhill ISBN:0851741738). Being disk-shaped, this truck surely shares etomological and perhaps even practical origins with the wheels of gun carriages, also called trucks, but the term "main truck" is a rigging reference. The removed section and related talk page entries showed much confusion over the proper terminology for traditional masting and rigging elements.

There is a discussion of the varying uses of the term Sloop on it's own article page.

Finally, amongst whom is this "debate" raging? Lacking citations, it's just original research. Pjbflynn (talk) 05:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

While I have no problem with your removal, I'm sure you're right, it might be a good idea to remove the referal to Sherbrooke, and the 'see below' part too. DannyBoy2k 22:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Good catch, thanks. Pjbflynn 06:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)