Talk:Newport railway station/Archive 1

Clarity over name station in article

Offically, the station name is Newport (Gwent) or Newport (South Wales), not just Newport. Is there a reason for this expect for it's large/busier that Newport (essex)? Thanks Glam04023706 18:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

• Hmm. Disagree. The name "Newport Gwent" (no brackets) appears on tickets and the name "Newport (South Wales)" on railway information boards to avoid confusion. However, the official name is still Newport, as shown by ALL railway signage on the platforms, foyer, etc. I am still not absolutely sure that the article should have reference to it formerly being known as Newport High St. as I have not found one single person to support this, but there we go. 11:40, 27 February 2007

• • A glance at the national rail documents says it is Newport (Gwent). This appears to be its official operating name and as discussed in the Swansea article (see pointless 3 month long problem with repeated vandalism) the station signage for the public is not the official station name. The book "Severn Tunnel to Newport" confirms that like Swansea the station was historically known as Newport High Street Station. Unlike Swansea I can't find evidence the name was retained for everything but signage. Interestingly the Railtrack documents use the name Newport High Street in odd cases but not normally. Its also occassionally used in local documents/material but unlike Swansea does not seen to be the common form. Currently the rules of the route use the term "Newport (Gwent)' which I would argue is fairly definitive. As an aside the signage is not "Newport (South Wales) as the anonymous writer comments, it is bilingual 81.2.110.250 (talk) 23:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• • • It was opened, on 19 June 1850, as Newport High Street, by the Great Western Railway; but was renamed Newport by British Rail. The Essex station was opened on 30 June 1845, as Newport, by the Eastern Counties Railway; and was renamed Newport (Essex), in 1923, by the London & North Eastern Railway. This information comes from Butt (1995).Pyrotec (talk) 23:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested Move

There are many stations around the world called Newport and this will also help to disambiguate between any in the UK. Simply south (talk) 21:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Support - If nothing else it will differentiate between the stations in Gwent and Essex. Newport (Essex) may only be a relatively small village, however the station is still fairly well used. TicketMan - Talk - contribs 23:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Support - move this page and turn the resultant redirect into a disambiguation. See Bramley railway station, Millbrook railway station and Whitchurch railway station for similar examples. – Tivedshambo (talk) 00:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

If it goes ahead, i will redirect the original to a more general disambiguation page. Simply south (talk) 11:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Support, but I think the move should be to "Newport (Wales) railway station": calling it "Newport (Gwent)" will cause loads of trouble, and is outdated anyway. --RFBailey (talk) 03:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Monmouthsire\Glamorgan? I didn't know it was there before. I thought disambiguated stations went by the county\city\council area in which they are in (for example, the two Howwoods). But i am not sure it would work as Newport (Newport) railway station. Gwent is not as outdated and is still used in some aspects. Simply south (talk) 11:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I've just experimented with my TRIBUTE terminal - screen shows Newport S. Wales, and the resultant ticket shows the same. Perhaps the best solution would be Newport (South Wales) railway station or Newport (S. Wales) railway station. TicketMan - Talk - contribs 15:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Neutral but if it is moved, I strongly agree that Gwent is outdated and shouldn't be used. Also Newport (Newport) is justsilly. I think Newport (South Wales) is the best option as that term is used by rail companies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshleprechaun (talk • contribs) 17:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment, Agree with the argument for the need for a disambiguation page. Also agree that Newport (Gwent) is outdated. To my knowledge, there is only one Newport in Wales and Newport (South Wales) railway station could imply there is another Newport railway station in Wales. I would favour a move to Newport (Wales) railway station. Sloman (talk) 18:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

There is also a Newport in Pembrokeshire (see here - Streetmap), although that is arguably also in South Wales. I feel that using the term 'Wales' is a little too general - using 'South Wales' narrows it down somewhat, and reflects what is used by the train operators. TicketMan - Talk - contribs 18:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment: As long as Newport, Pembrokeshire doesn't have a railway station then there should be no problem Welshleprechaun (talk) 18:33, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - this is clearly the predominant use of the name, disambiguation beyond the existing hatnote is unnecessary. 90.203.45.168 (talk) 20:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

If the parenthetical is not official and a disambiguation is approved, then the proper title at Wikipedia would be Newport railway station (Gwent), Newport railway station (Wales), &c. with the disambiguator at the end as is the case with Newport railway station (IoWCR Isle of Wight) now. — AjaxSmack 16:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you're right about that, AjaxSmack. It sounds as if the options on the table are

• Newport railway station (Gwent)
• Newport railway station (South Wales)
• Newport railway station (Wales)
• ... any others?

Which of these do people prefer most, or least? I get the impression many people dislike "Gwent", and that South Wales is the common use, but is a slightly stronger-than-necessary disambiguation, as we have no Newport railway station (North Wales). Does that sound about right? -GTBacchus^(talk) 01:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I am beginning to think that there is no consensus on where the location-in-brackets goes. Simply south (talk) 15:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

... and so you moved it anyway. The official tag used by the railway is "South Wales", and so "Newport (Wales)" is nonsensical. I am still also unconvinced of the need for a dab tag in the first place - this station was clearly the primary use of the term "Newport railway station". 90.203.45.168 (talk) 17:17, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

And moved it to a title that is a bit inappropriate for Wikipedia (the disambiguator should go at the end). There is evidence that "South Wales" is used officially so let's send it to Newport railway station (South Wales) for now. — AjaxSmack 07:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

This is disambiguation for the sake of it! This is by far the busiest of any of the stations with nearly 2 million passengers per annum, 10 times the passengers of the Essex one. The IoWCR one is defunct and the Melbourne one seems to have no passenger figures for it at all! Reverting move. Owain (talk) 10:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Why are we page-move-warring over this? This article should either be Newport High Street railway station or Newport railway station. The former is historically correct and avoids unnecessary disambiguation. The latter is also acceptable as it is by far the more well-used station by an order of magnitude! Owain (talk) 13:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Looking at other examples, I'm not sure whether it should be Newport High Street railway station because doing a quick searching on Google, although it yields 132k results, none of them call the station by that name apart from Wikipedia-related matches. This name isn't used officially by National Rail, Arriva Train Wales or First Great Western: NR and FGW call it Newport (South Wales) while Arriva call it Newport (Gwent) and Network Rail just Newport. This certainly makes finding a name awkward.

There has to be disambiguation because even though Newport in Essex is in a small village, it is still well used with about 0.2 million in comparison with the Welsh station's 2 million - not bad either, considering that the village is 70 time smaller than the Welsh town. Normally the county is used to disambiguate e.g. Ashford (Surrey) and Bramley (Hants) but the National Rail website seems to be using this as an exception. I suggest it is either moved to "Newport (Gwent)" or "Newport (South Wales)". Any thoughts as to which one?

Discussion from May

The other issue is where to put the diambiguation as the examples I showed there put it between the name and the "railway station" but sometimes it is put at the end in brackets such as Richmond station (London). I prefer the former arrangement, especially as the Essex station uses it. Anywikiuser (talk) 20:10, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

This station easily qualifies as the primary use of the name "Newport" in a railway context, being as it is the main station in Wales' third city. As is the usual standard for geographic disambiguation on Wikipedia, the smaller should be at Newport railway station, Essex. Also, remember the entry/exit number is just that - entry/exit. You need to consider where people may be coming from. Bristol and South Wales have a combined population of around 1.5-2 million, so that's roughly one journey per year for every person. Compared to London and the South East, with its population of 11 million or more, which works out to roughly one journey per year for every 60 - the same order of magnitude as the ratio between the population of the two places. 81.110.106.169 (talk) 21:45, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I sort of get your point: this station means much more to the local region than the small one in Essex. In addition, I expect the Essex station gets a large amount of revenue for commuters whereas a wider range of people use this station. Even so this would be difficult to measure. I expect that someone trying to look up the Essex station would probably be aware that there is another one in Wales whereas someone looking up this station wouldn't be aware of the Essex and Melbourne stations, let alone the two defunct ones on the Isle of Wight and Shropshire. From that point of view, Newport railway station is sensible, but it is also 'wrong' because Newport railway station could mean all 5. In that case, I suggest is should be named Newport (South Wales) railway station or Newport railway station (South Wales) but make Newport railway station redirect here with a link to the disambiguation page. Anywikiuser (talk) 10:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

WP:DAB is pretty clear on this - any tag here is spurious because it is clearly and indisputably the "primary use" of the main title, and the dab page belongs at Newport railway station (disambiguation). We have standards for naming articles for a reason. 81.110.106.169 (talk) 11:39, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Well since we're really discussing whether it should have (South Wales) in it or not, so shall I might as well move it to Newport (South Wales) railway station so it can be changed later if necessary? There doesn't seem to be any support for keeping it as it is. Anywikiuser (talk) 14:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The current location being poor is probably an incentive to bring this to a proper resolution. 81.110.106.169 (talk) 19:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

Newport High Street railway station → Newport railway station — Per WP:DAB, clearly the "primary use" of the name —81.110.106.169 (talk) 19:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Discussion

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