Talk:Viva la Vida

Citation tag

Is the citation tag really needed for the 'second single' statement? Is there any reasonable doubt as to whether the statement is true or not? The Violet Hill page doesn't have a citation-needed tag for a similar page, so I don't think this page needs one. 202.46.136.129 (talk) 11:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Violet Hill is clearly a single. Viva la Vida, however, appears to be a promotion for the album/iTunes. -- I need a name (talk) 11:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Well nonetheless, its still notable due to its chart appearences. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 18:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Song meaning

I feel like deleting the "song meaning" section because it is poorly written to the point of irrelevance. Suggestions? 69.109.185.48 (talk) 05:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

It's OR too. -- I need a name (talk) 12:17, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Those lyrics aren't even correct...it's "I know Saint Peter WILL call my name" so that defeats the purpose of that entire section. 72.72.91.166 (talk) 14:04, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

It's definitely 'won't'. -- I need a name (talk) 14:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

The first time it's "won't," but the second time it could be "will," but I think it sounds like "won't" both times. Phs1234 (talk) 18:47, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

It's definitely "won't". The lyric before it says "for some reason I can't explain," and if the lyric to the next verse was "will" it wouldn't make any sense. "For some reason I can't explain I know Saint Peter will call my name"? Don't think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.225.204.200 (talk) 01:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

who actually deleted the section ? i cant find the edit in the history and i would like to read that section. Machete97 (talk) 20:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I removed it here and here. -- I need a name (talk) 21:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Dont blame you for removing it - both times. They are pretty badly written and are completely OR. I was just interested in some opinions of the meaning of the lyrics. Machete97 (talk) 13:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

lol it's not even got anything to do with that. The song's about the Bush administration... They even dedicate the song to America at the MTV awards! But of course you can't add anything unless and until there is a source. --.:Alex:. 18:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

i suppose "in jerusalem bells are ringing" " "never an honest word" and "revolutionaries wait for my head on a silver plate" apply to that, but what about "sweep the streets i used to roam" (far too rich and stupid to ever be able to do that) "see it rise when i gave the word" "now the old king is dead - long live the king" loads more..... Machete97 (talk) 18:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Well it's "Seas would rise" referring to Bush's denial of global warming, "be my mirror, sword and shield" and "missionaries in a foreign field" obvious refer to the Iraq War. It was left deliberately open to misinterpretation though, and some things probably reference other things as well. If the meaning was too obvious, well...--.:Alex:. 20:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Clearly about Napolean. --Augustine —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.187.0.178 (talk) 03:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

"I hear Jerusalem bells are ringing" refers to the closeness Napolean came to conquering Jerusalem--he conquered Egypt, Syria, and today's northern Israel. "They couldn't believe what I'd become" and "revolutionaries wait for my head on a silver plate" refer to Napolean spurning the French revolution and creating a monarchy (also the cheers that "the old king is dead - long live the king" refer to the termination of the French monarchy only to be replaced by Napolean's own monarchy). "Never an honest word - that was when I ruled the world" perhaps refers to the flattery that led him to risk too much and destroy his armies in Russia and at Waterloo. "I used to roll the dice, see the fear in my enemies eyes" refers to the gambles and victories he won as a general. "Viva vida (long live) my sword and shield - my missionaries in a foriegn field" refers to the fact that Napolean spread his strength and his own gospel of power by means of the sword; i.e. his missionaries were not priests preaching about Christ, but instead the weapons that brought Europe to her knees. "For some reason I can't explain, I know St. Peter won't call my name" is typical of powerful men who use questionable meand to accomplish great things, and eventually vaguely come to understand that their souls are lost in the process when they sacrifice their morals for ambition. "Now I sleep alone" refers to his banishment on St. Helena after Waterloo, separated from his family. I'm sure Coldplay deduicated the song to America as a statement of the suggestive similarities between Napolean and George Bush, or, more plausibly, a warning that, in hindsight, ambition for its own sake at an international scale, can be horribly destructive to the soul of a vain leader. --Augustine —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.187.0.178 (talk) 03:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Augustine is damn right. It´s definately a song about Napoleon.

Some more about the song:

"Seas would rise when i gave the word" - Most parts of europe were under Napoleons command. Whatever he ordered would be done.

"Now in the morning I sleep alone" - Exile on St. Helena apart from his family

"Sweep the streets I used to own" - Symbolizes his fall

"One minute I held the key. Next the walls were closed on me" - He had the key to whole europe and then was banned and imprisoned.

"and I discovered that my castles stand upon pillars of sand" - Nothing lasts forever. Even Napoleons fame and glory.

"Roman Cavalry choirs are singing" - From 1805 he was king of italy too.

"It was the wicked and wild wind. Blew down the doors to let me in." - Nobody could resist him.

"I know Saint Peter won´t call my name" - In art, St. Peter is often depicted holding the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Napoleon was sure, that he wouldn´t make it to heaven. -Jenson- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.35.204.51 (talk) 22:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Augustine has a good point, saying that the song is about Napoleon. The only problem i have with his assumption is that this song has a revolutionary theme. "Shattered windows and the sound of drums People could not believe what I'd become Revolutionairies wait For my head on a silver plate." Napoleon was sent into exile by the British not the French. I feel the song is about a king who was great but then slowly became corrupted like most powerful leaders, and then was overthrown by his own people. No suggestions on which leader it might be but I dont think that Napoleon fits the description that well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.228.23.180 (talk) 18:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Need some cleanup

This page is a bit messy. Please try to rearrange it, such as putting the chart performance together. Sorry I don't know how to do this... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Freddyfu123 (talk • contribs) 18:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Similarity to Satriani Song

Someone needs to write that this song is similar to the Joe Satriani Song - If I could Fly. Chris Martin was even in the news about copying other songs- sp it is a significant point. Here is a link to a youtube video confirming it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.44.243 (talk) 05:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but original research is not permitted, let alone linking to original research from an anonymous Youtube source. This claim has to be reported by reliable news sources. --Madchester (talk) 18:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

How about this? hobbie (talk) 18:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC) A few problems:

1. While MusicRadar is a reliable source, it only has a passing mention of the Satriani video, with no further research of the song similarities. The article does not nothing more than offer a link to the Satriani-Coldplay video.
2. Both videos fail WP:SELFPUBLISHED, since we generally don't recognize Youtube as a reliable source. However, the CB video was accompanied by the band furthering those allegations in press interviews. Satriani was not involved in the creation of the Youtube comparison video (whereas CB created the video themselves), nor has he made any official claims or allegations.

I've removed the Satriani reference again, unless the artist makes an actual comment about that video. --Madchester (talk) 21:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Spanish?

I'm sorry, but I've been taking Spanish for around nine years, and I see no way that "viva la vida" means "long live life". There's no word for "long" in the phrase, since the word for long is "largo". I'd say it means roughly "live life", like telling somebody, "live your life". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.160.222.253 (talk) 01:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, I'm a native spanish speaker from Mexico, and the most aproximate (and almost direct) tranlation for 'Viva la Vida' is 'Long live the Life'. If i'm not being clear is like saying 'hooray to life'. For me, as an spanish speaker, familiar with english, to translate 'viva la vida' to 'live the life' is kind of unnatural, because you don't order someone to live the life. gilb_4 02:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

As stated on the album's Discussion board, I'm a linguist, a native Spanish speaker and a native English speaker. The phrase "Viva la vida!" (cf. "Viva España!", "Viva el rey!" and "Vive la France!") can only mean "Long live life!" (just as the others mean "Long life Spain!", "Long live the king!" and "Long live France!"). It does not mean "Alive is the life!" and it is not an instruction to "Live the life!". It is, however, a euphoric and victorious battle cry. Please stop changing the translation to inferior and crude representations. I have checked with three other native Spanish and English people (one of whom is a professional translator and another is a university professor) and they all agree that the correct translation of "Viva la [...]." is "Long live [...]!".

Further proof can be seen here: [1] and here: [2] Ben Merritt (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

1. The Amazon source can't be used per WP:SYN.
2. The Wordpress source can't be used per WP:RS, since a blog is a non-reliable source.

Right now, no party in this edit war has provided a reliable source to back up their claim. Namely, an article describing the album, which also provides a translation/explanation of the album title. --Madchester (talk) 13:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Surely the proof is what the actual translation of the phrase is, rather than what people who don't really understand translation/interpretation/Spanish/English think it should be? When Spanish citizens went round shouting "Viva el rey!", would an accurate account in English say they were shouting "Alive is the king!"? When French citizens chanted "Vive la France!", were they saying "Live the France!"? Is "Viva España!" really "Alive is the Spain!"? No. Because the best way of translating "Viva [...]" is "Long live [...]". Ben Merritt (talk) 16:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Ohhh... Come on!!... just trust us, and if you don't want to trust us, where is your 'realiable' source for the 'live the life' translation eh????. I think I have a more reliable source for the statement that 'Viva la vida' translates as 'Long live life': Marcha Real. It is another article in the wikipedia itself. Greets from mexico. gilb_4 19:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Use of dulcimer?

Starting at ~2:05 in the song (for ~15 seconds), I think the instrument dulcimer has been used - can someone confirm? Amrishkelkar (talk) 17:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Chart Performances

Where are the chart performances of other countries? Why did you erase them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.6.123.97 (talk) 23:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know it too, someone always deletes the info about the Polish National Top 50... Mixplusik (talk) 19:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Video

Any refrences to say when the video is being made?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nisior (talk • contribs) 13:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Plagiarism allegations

I noticed one editor has been continually removing this section. The plagiarism allegations received substantial press coverage from reliable sources and even merited an official response from the band. Had the story A) not been reported by the press and/or B) not led to an official band statement, then you could make a case that the story is irrelevant.

Note that we never reported on the Satriani similarities, since that claim was only from a YouTube video and was never carried by any mainstream media outlets. --Madchester (talk) 03:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

RESPONSE: I never said it was false, just irrelevant. There is a TON of stuff that received press coverage from reliable sources and was commented upon by the band. Shall we shove all that info into the article? By my reckoning the plagiarism charge needs to be true to be included, otherwise it is just irrelevant. The American band is so small they don't even have their own Wikipedia page.

In ten years does a reader need to know that an obscure rock group briefly thought Coldplay stole from them? Probably not, which is why WIKIPEDIA IS NOT AN INFORMATION DUMP. The section I removed has no business being in an encyclopedia.

Please stop sending me messages accusing me of vandalism and suggesting I hit up the Sandbox. I cleanly snipped out some clutter and left a good reason why. I'm going to remove it again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.66.222 (talk) 19:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)