Talk:Fyodor Dostoevsky

Template:FAOL

Spelling

I've scanned the archive but apart from this very brief mention back in 2005, there appears never to have been any discussion about how best to spell his name. Given the variations we find in the real world, this is very surprising.

I'm unhappy with Dostoevsky, because it looks like it's pronounced dos-tow-evsky; whereas, it's actually much closer to dos-toy-evsky, and the spelling Dostoyevsky is more faithful to that. I'd like to move it to Dostoyevsky, but will await comments before doing so. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:58, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, it is erroneous to write the name without i or y in the middle, so I suggest Dostoyevsky.--Miacek (talk) 13:32, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

That may very well be, however I have only seen the spelling Dostoevsky on every novel of his that I have read and it seems too impertinent to make the transition the the pronunciation favored spelling when it may have been his family's goal to make the distinction between their name and their town of origin.--Loonybin0 18:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

No, I don't believe it has anything to do with that. Regardless of how it came to be that way, his name in Russian was Достоевский. The issue for Wikipedia is this: How best to transliterate the Russian word Достоевский into Latin characters suitable for an English-speaking audience? The only real matter of debate is the letter E/е. It is sometimes transliterated "e" (Ленин becomes Lenin) and sometimes "ye" (Ельцын becomes Yeltsin). Some transliteration systems arbitrarily render it as "e" in all cases, which can lead to absurd outcomes such as Mendeleev (Dmitri Mendeleev), which looks for all the world as if it's pronounced as the 3-syllable Men-del-eve (because double "e" has a special meaning in English), whereas it's actually a 4-syllable word Men-del-ey-ev. I have a friend whose surname is spelled Matveev, and he pronounces it Mat-vey-ev, but most people call him "Mat-veev", to his eternal chagrin. He would like to change the spelling legally to Matveyev but his family is happy the way it is and so he defers to them. With Dostoyevsky, it's pronounced do-sto-yev-ski, and the "e", because it follows another vowel, should be spelled "ye" to ensure it's not perceived as a diphthong, which is why it's often seen that way. Anyone who's never heard of him and encounters this article may well think it's pronounced "dos-tove-ski", or the "dos-tow-evski" I referred to earlier. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree as far as the rule - i.e., it should have been ye. However, there is something to be said for standardization and every book I've seen as well ommitting the y. See, for example, Image:0374528373.01. SCLZZZZZZZ .jpg and http://www.amazon.com/Punishment-Bantam-Classics-Fyodor-Dostoevsky/dp/0553211757. While past use may not determine future use, the most common search term will be Dostoevsky because the majority of books bare that spelling. --RossF18 (talk) 04:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

The 'best' example of the so-called transliteration often used is the Russian ё transliterated simply as e. E.g. 'Gorbachev', 'Grachev', whereas the last syllable is actually stressed in Russian and realized as o. --Miacek (talk) 16:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

What would be more relevant here, per Wikipedia:RUS#Romanization table, Russian e is romanized as ye after vowels. Which is the case here. --Miacek (talk) 16:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

That applies where there's doubt. There are special rules for people, which include:

• If the person is an author of works published in English, the spelling of the name used in such publications should be used. When multiple spellings are used and no single spelling clearly predominates, use the one closest to the WP:RUS romanization guidelines.
• If the person is the subject of English-language publications, the spelling predominantly used in such publications should be used. ... When no single spelling predominates, use the one closest to the WP:RUS romanization guidelines.
• Selecting the most frequently used variant based on a search engine test is not acceptable.
• When in doubt, use WP:RUS.

The first two point merge, since he never wrote in English, but his works were certainly published in English translations, where the Romanization of his name was as much left up to the translator as was the text itself. Loonybin0 and Ross F18 say they only ever encounter Dostoevsky. I've certainly seen that, but most times in my travels it's been Dostoyevsky. We can't use a google search to test this objectively (and it might be meaningless anyway). It seems to me there's sufficient doubt, which means we go to the Romanization table, which requires -ye. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:56, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Family Size

Of all the Dostoevsky's siblings, only his brother seemed to have any profound impact on his life. Yet it would be important to distinguish one fact: were there six children or seven? According to David Magarshack and Random House, there were only six in the Dostoevsky household. I am going to make this change in the article unless someone finds any evidence to the contrary.--Loonybin0 18:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loonybin0 (talk • contribs)

• this says seven; so does this. Are you sure of your source? --Rodhullandemu 18:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, no I'm not totally sure of it, though I think it was reasonable for me to trust the publisher and author (cited reference number four in the main article). I see that both of the items you mentioned are web summaries, which I tend to trust less, particularly if they come from quick and dirty text references like in the first link. I may be wrong though because it does seem very well supported, and I will be happy to change it back or you can feel free to.--Loonybin0 01:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)