Talk:Al-Qaeda

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Regarding "alliance of" or just an "Islamic militant terrorist organization"

Quote: "... Alija Izetbegovic was willing to accept any help it could get, military or financial, including that of a number of Islamic organisations, such as al-Qaeda.". Here, al-Qaeda is called an islamic organisation, while the article starts with "... is an international alliance of Islamic militant terrorist organizations...". Shouldn't that be fixed? -- Kirjapan (talk) 13:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

What "fixed"? Al-Qaeda is Islamic organization (too). --HanzoHattori (talk) 14:55, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to figure out what they are, with all the misinformation from the neoconservatists and the current US government. -- Kirjapan (talk) 07:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed change:

Al-Qaeda (also al-Qaida or al-Qa'ida or al-Qa'idah) (Arabic: القاعدة‎ al-qāʕida, translation: The Base) is an international Islamic militant terrorist organization, or alliance of organizations, founded in 1988[4] by Azzam (later replaced by Osama Bin Laden...

I've seldom heard of it refered to as an alliance of organizations except in wikipedia --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

You mean, it might be Atheist? Or Christian? --HanzoHattori (talk) 13:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, how about:

Al-Qaeda (also al-Qaida or al-Qa'ida or al-Qa'idah) (Arabic: القاعدة‎ al-qāʕida, translation: The Base) is an international Islamic militant terrorist organization, or an international alliance of Islamic militant terrorist organizations, founded in 1988[4] by Azzam (later replaced by Osama Bin Laden... --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

We no longer call Egyptians barbarians do we? What is the purpose of using an ethnic slur to define a group which at no point has ever accepted the stance of being a "terrorist organization". In the article set aside for the Ku Klux Klan there is absolutely no mention of it being a terrorist organization however it is there mission statement that violence is the only way to solve their problems. Not only that but this article also goes on to give a list of organizations that use this slur. Wouldn't it be unnecessary to call them terrorists than make an attempt to argue they are terrorists? Either they are or they are terrorists or they are being considered terrorists, if there is not a universal acceptance than the beginning of this article is misleading. If you remove the contradiction perhaps the article would look proper were it started like this:

Al-Qaeda (also al-Qaida or al-Qa'ida or al-Qa'idah) (Arabic: القاعدة‎ al-qāʕida, translation: The Base)is an international alliance of Sunni Islamic organizations founded in 1988[4] by Azzam (later replaced by Osama Bin Laden...

It is the only way to remove a direct biased in the introduction of this article. --Zakhebeone (talk) 2:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Introduction is not biased. Go ahead and add the word "terrorist" to the Ku Klux Klan article, but do not censor this article. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:16, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

You call me a censor, I call you a bigot, unvalidated my statement or leave the article alone. --Zakhebeone (talk) 5:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The question of the concrete "reality" of a human organization is always subject to eternal philosophical questions of classification. An entity "belongs" to an organization only to the extent that varying human perception, including its own, makes it so. The article well expresses both poles of this continuum and no further clarification is thus needed.Mydogtrouble (talk) 22:06, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

The opening description i.e. "an international Sunni Islamic movement founded in 1988. Al-Qaeda have attacked civilian and military targets in various countries, the most notable being the September 11 attacks in 2001" is not exactly a generally accepted fact. It would rather appear to be a loose association of various extreme Islamicist (not simply "Islamic") groups. 84.188.251.62 (talk) 21:51, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. The opening paragraphs and many sections in this article are biased and misleading. There is not a shred of evidence that there is something like an Al-Qaeda terrorist networked organisation. This image has been fabricated by neo-conservatives, exaggerated by the media and thankfully accepted by a handful of radicals as free media exposure for their ideas. I think it is sad that Wikipedia is abused to turn fantasies into fabricated realities for political reasons.
Can I therefor suggest to change this article into a document that only describes the historic timeline of the imagined international network of terrorists and the spin around it? I am not saying there are no terrorists, I am disputing that there is a global organisation behind this, since there is absolutely no evidence. It is not the first time in history that things that don't exist simply become reality after you just repeat them again and again. Wvdc (talk) 10:54, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

There is plenty of evidence and I wouldn't advise attempting to censor the article with conspiracy theories. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that the issue here is the terms "Al Qaeda" and "founded". If you look at the history of "Al Qaeda", you see that they didn't "found" themselves in 1988 as is claimed in the article. The term "Al Qaeda" was used to label the group of mujahadeen being funded by Osama bin laden and the CIA during the Afghan war with Russia. (I realize that the article claims that the origins of the term is disputed, the first known instance of the term is in 1998, from an address book found by the CIA that was believed to belong to Osama Bin Laden when the CIA raided a place after the 1998 bombing, and was labeled "The base of Jihad", and listed those sympathetic to the cause of the Afghans, whom Bin Laden could count on to fight against the Russians. It appears that this is the main reason why the article wording was changed from "organization" to to the more accurate "movement". "Movements" are not "founded", organizations are. I think that wording the article should be changed so that it more accurately reflects the etymology of the term "Al Qeada". I think that it's CIA-financed origins are also an important enough part of it's history to be added to the description. For instance, "Al-Qaeda, alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida, (Arabic: القاعدة‎; al-qāʿidah; translation: The Base) is an international Sunni Islamist movement, originating with CIA-sponsored militants during the Afghan war around 1988". That, to me, is the most accurate definition.71.168.97.187 (talk) 01:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Jermey Reynalds should be Jeremy Reynalds

see [1]

Jermey is a surname! ;-)

Jon Jermey.

Image: Cheney/Sultan?

What is the purpose of the Cheney/Sultan picture? I understand the section deals with US/Saudi relations during the Iraq invasion of Kuwait, but neither person is mentioned anywhere in the entire article text and neither person is a member of Al Qaeda or an affiliated organization. This seems random and probably has an associated POV. Fooburger (talk) 22:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Months with no response, when I get the required access level, I'll remove the image. Fooburger (talk) 04:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Qaeda

This news story

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/world/africa/27pirates.html?pagewanted=2&th&emc=th

uses "Qaeda" rather than "Al-Qaeda". (I just mention this in case it is of interest.)

Wanderer57 (talk) 16:23, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

The September 11 attacks in 2001

There seems to be an error in this article and apparently I cannot edit it. The error is in the first paragraph: "Al-Qaeda have attacked civilian and military targets in various countries, the most notable being the September 11 attacks in 2001". Shouldn't we take this out from a wikipedia page since we all know this is not true ? Nimeni12345 (talk) 15:45, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Nimeni12345

Since we all know this is not true? That, at best, is an inaccurate statement. Those that are thought by the intelligence communities to have committed the attacks on 9/11 are thought to be associated with Al Qaeda. However, the idea that "Al Qaeda" is responsible for the attacks on 9/11 is, at the very least, disputed, and should not be described in the article as if this is an undisputed fact. It is not. However, if you are suggesting that the mention of 9/11 be removed completely or that conspiracy theory wording is added to the article, I disagree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.97.187 (talk) 01:53, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, so let's call it an inaccurate fact as you wish. Shouldn't wikipedia present an inaccurate fact as "it is believed to have happened like this" or "X and Y are accusing them of this" ? If wikipedia presents inaccurate facts as certainties in every article, it means you cannot trust wikipedia as a source of information. Is this the reality, wikipedia folks (or whoever is keeping this article from being edited) or are you willing to correct the mistake? Nimeni12345 (talk) 15:48, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Nimeni12345

seeing that both bin Laden and al Zawahiri have admitted to planning these attacks (and to being satisfied with the result) it would be weasely to pretend that they did not do it. --Vindheim (talk) 20:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I, and millions of pther americans, watched him personally claim responsibility for the 9/11 attacks.Prussian725 (talk) 19:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

"Alleged" CIA involvement

While the DEGREE of involvement in the establishment and funding of the groups of individuals that later became know as "Al Qeada" can be disputed, the FACT that the CIA was involved in the formation of these groups is not "Alleged". The CIA admits this, and it is a historical certainty. The content of the article is accurate, but the title is misleading, appearing as if ANY CIA involvement is some kind of conspiracy theory. Remove the weasel word "alleged".71.168.97.187 (talk) 00:23, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

So the involvement of CIA is "alleged" and the attack from 9/11 is for sure blamed on "al-qaeda" ? Can you take the "alleged" from this story with CIA and "al-Qaeda" and put it in the story of the 9/11 attack ? This would be more accurate. Who is keeping this article on "al-Qaeda" from being edited ? There are mistakes in it, don't you hear this? Are you doing it on purpose or something? Nimeni12345 (talk) 15:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Nimeni12345

You would probably have more luck posting a link to a credible reference for your claim. It looks like this page is locked due to vandalism. Fooburger (talk) 04:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

History of the name

I still don't see why this section starts with "There is at least one public reference to the name "al-Qaeda" that pre-dates the 2001 trial." There are numerous public references prior to 1998. Please see talk history page for citations. Perhaps you could say this was the first U.S. Government's public pronouncment. However, even that would be wrong. There is a state department report from 1996. (See: "US lists Saudi businessman as extremis sponsor." Carol Giacomo August 1996 Reuters News), at the very latest.

I guess we are going to ignore the Arab media were using the term since the early 90s. And Although it counts for nothing, I am SURE there were numerous other U.S. pronoucements that just didnt happen to find themselves in the newswires and thus Lexis Nexis archives. I don't understand what the whole focus on "public" is, since there are numerous after the fact references and discussions, documents, etcetera that traced the term Al-Qaeda since its founding. Although I guess an esteemed website like Wikipedia always has to leave open the possiblity of monolothic international conspiracies building up quite an after the fact profile to cover their tracks.

This idea though that there could be one or even close to one reference to al-qaeda before 2001 is just bizarre. Although I know it is necessary to get the Jamal al-Fadl "invented al qaida" idea as early as possible in the article.

Anyways, I don't thinks it proper to mislead readers that the first pronoucement came from Clintons executive order. If its a popular enough opinion that the name came from Jamal al-Fadl i suppose its necessary to include it, but it should come with the knowledge that this goes against all available evidence to support it. Chudogg (talk) 21:17, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

KLA

Why no mention of links to the KLA and Chechnya??? 88.111.185.5 (talk) 16:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)