Talk:Manic Street Preachers

New Album Information

Can somebody please update the article with the following information from the link below, as it contains confirmation of the both the album title and the release date. I would do it myself but I do not know how to source information when editing a Wiki article. Many thanks: http://www.the-fly.co.uk/words/news/top-news-stories/4363/new-manics-album —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.28.0 (talk) 20:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Never mind, I have now worked out how to reference information when adding new info to an article. Thanks anyway folks!

TMI

Yes we see you added information but most people are going to think it's too much. This is supposed to be an article about a musical group - not about some Sartre-inspired working class politics. I suggest you seriously consider removing this bit and concentrating on giving Wiki readers what they want: information about the band, not your fan-based adulation of them.

I just added some information about the early Manics philosophy of sellout as freedom. Please dont take this the wrong way, I am not doubting the Manics sincerity or calling them sellouts in that bullshit, punk rock fashion that is by now little more than a tired music press cliche. All I am trying to say is that by basically flying in the face of what was around at the time (the grunge/indie anti-success ethic etc.) the Manics both made it harder for themselves willingly and also that they one of the few (if not only) visible bands around at the time that were doing something new and unique to them.

"I Know I Believe In Nothing But It Is My Nothing" - Richey James Edwards. Motown Junkie 10:18, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The manics are so cute!!

Too many unsourced claims...

Alright, we have enough unsourced material as is, but a lot of new editors (while acting in good faith) continue to pile upon material that is not sourced, including some comments about the early era. We seriously need sources to make this a genuine encyclopedia article. Also, one user has added the 10th anniversary editions to the discography and deleted things he may not deem worthy (like the awards), which is not acting in good faith. For the anniversary editions, just add them to the original edition of said albums (which has already been done). Again, sorry to make a big deal about this but this article definitely needs work. --TLIP 23:25, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The 10th anniversary editions are important to be included in the discography because they show how successful the Manics have been, they are also completly new editions with around 25 extra tracks and a dvd. Why delete stuff from an article when *you* don't know what you're talking about, but the previous editors do? I completly agree with the sentiment expressed below. Why bother contributing to an article when some uninformed busy-body is going to delete what you've put because you are not able to get an online source to attribute it to. ED's article (a link to which is blocked by Wiki's ridiculous link blacklist) on Wikipedia is woefully accurate regarding your obsession with citations. --Smallblackflower 17:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I think deleting the awards and links and interwiki stuff was an accident. (I added them back in.) The new editor tried to restore them, but didn't know how to recover the formatted text from the previous versions (diff). -David Schaich ^Talk/_Cont 23:33, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I deleted the awards and links section by mistake. Many thanks for putting them back (very quickly!). -lonelywreckage

I contributed the info from an interview with Delirium that the album title would 'possibly' be 'Send Away The Tigers' and its been deleted, as was the Nicky telling Jupitus that they hoped to do a duet with Nina from the Cardigans. I wasn't making any of that up, yet its been edited out. I even quoted the sources for christs sake. In future I won't bother trying to help frankly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.118.45 (talk • contribs) 14:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how this would affect the article in terms of it being accepted as an encyclopedia article, but here's what I think. The article could simply be stripped down. Most of the embellished info from fans who are probably just trying to help is significant to them but not to others. As an example: On the opening paragraphs, the 3rd on including information about the bands political views should be removed. The information about the genres should be included in paragraphs about the albums as the bands sound has changed with almost every album. Darkanddivine

Genre

In the info box Britpop is listed under genres. It's certainly not a genre I would associate with The Manics - can we take it out?

Wikipedia's own Britpop entry describes it as:

"Britpop emerged from the indie scene of the early 1990s and was characterised by bands influenced by British guitar pop music of the 1960s and 1970s. The movement developed as a reaction against various musical and cultural trends in the late 1980s and early 1990s, particularly the grunge phenomenon from the United States. In the wake of the grunge invasion led by bands like Nirvana, many bands positioned themselves as opposing musical forces, referencing British guitar music of the past and writing about uniquely British topics and concerns."

I don't think that refelcts The Manics body of work - even that produced during the "Britpop era".

--Mike Infinitum 22:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

• • Many newspaper articles reference Britpop when discussing the Manics, especially Everything Must Go. I also don't see that definition as excluding the Manics, who typically referenced British culture, developed as a reaction against various musical and cultural trends in the late 1980s and early 1990s and were influenced by punk, popular guitar based music of the 1970s. I tend to agree that I wouldn't categorise them as Britpop, but the wider audience does, and adopting a neutral point of view means we should reference it. The Manics are associated with the Britpop scene. After all, they supported Oasis at Knebworth, one of the seminal Britpop moments. I think it should stay, because the band are associated with the genre, whether it fits them or now:
    • "BRITPOP BANDS: Blur, Suede, Manic Street Preachers" Wales on Sunday (Cardiff); Oct 14, 2001; RACHEL MAINWARING; p. 20
    • "Obviously they were working in a vacuum of Britpop, the time when mediocre guitar bands could break through and shift thousands of copies. Britain was open to guitar music and the band admits they rode the coat-tails of the revolution." How the Manics were reborn Western Mail (Cardiff); Nov 3, 2006; Claire Hill; p. 1
    • "The 1990s saw a return to bands recording live in the studio as the advent of what would be known as Britpop created a whole new generation of artists. Bands including Radiohead, Spiritualized, Manic Street Preachers" The Independent (London); Nov 9, 2006; Terry Kirby; p. 14
    • "Everything Must Go was one of the high watermarks of Britpop" Bristol Evening Post 16 November 2006
    • " Bradfield is vocalist and guitarist with the Manic Street Preachers, one of Britain's best-loved bands, a spiky gang of punky, Welsh ideologues who rose through the '90s Britpop boom to become stadium-filling anthemicists." The Daily Telegraph (London); Jun 29, 2006; Neil McCormick; p. 026
  • There's a random selection of clippings placing the band in the genre. Hope that helps. Hiding Talk 20:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Mike Infinitum - I did a double take when I saw "Britpop" in the genre section. It's true that articles sometimes wrongly identify the Manics as Britpop, but that is often the fault of inaccurate journalists who classify any artists who were performing during the early 1990s (or indeed any British artists at all) as Britpop; for instance, I've seen the same label inappropriately attached to Elvis Costello, New Order and Muse, to name but a few. I'd also disagree that the above clippings place the band in the genre - some of them do, but others arguably place them alongside it, not in it, which is exactly correct. Tobelia 12:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Darkanddivine I agree with Tobelia in that the Manics were only briefly associated with the genre, and they certainly courted that scene with the Oasis supports, but even once the Britpop bubble burst they went on to become an even bigger band just at the end of the 90's/early 00's. —Preceding comment was added at 21:32, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I think Britpop is a fair label for post the richie era, although to say that the Manics were reacting to Grunge is wrong, as the band were fans Nirvana, Hole etc. (Can get soruces if anyone wants) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.108.23 (talk) 10:45, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Flicker and Jenny Watkins-Isnardi

Is this chap really notable enough to warrant his own article? There's really nothing there that can't be merged into the "Early years" section of the Manics article. PC78 14:01, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. No information in his own article whatsoever, might aswell be merged into the bands main article as only a sentence or two could give you all the information needed on him in the band. Speed2006 21:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Since no-one objects I'll go ahead with the merge. PC78 16:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, regarding that line about Flicker leaving the band because of musical differences, I've got a BBC article that says he was sacked [1]. I don't know enough about the band's early history to start messing about with the text though. PC78 16:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, same situation with Jenny Watkins-Isnardi. Is there really anything to say about her that can't be said in the main article? PC78 16:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I think more info should be accessible about Flicker and Jenny Watkins-Isnardi, as at one point both have been influential in the band girlwhowantedtobegod

They're both really nothing more than footnotes in the band's early history. But if you think more can be added to those articles, then be my guest. PC78 12:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead with the merge, despite the objection (of sorts) from the anon user above. There was very little content in the Watkins-Isnardi article anyway, plus I was concerned that it didn't meet WP:BIO. PC78 15:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Moved from article

Trivia

• In an episode of the animated, satirical British comedy Monkey Dust, the Manics can be seen playing at the Ivan Dobsky concert. While they are playing, (they are playing You Love Us) Prison Superintendent Mr. Drummond can be seen jumping around in the mosh pit.

• If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next is the longest titled song to have become UK Number One

• According to James Dean Bradfield, the first concert him Sean and Richey went to was Echo & The Bunnymen at the Bristol Colston Hall in 1985.

• James narrowly escaped being named Clint Eastwood Bradfield; his parents changed their mind the day he was born.

• "Everything Must Go" has been remixed by the Chemical Brothers to serve as the title song for the Playstation game "Gran Turismo: the real driving simulator".

• In the comic book Phonogram, the Manics are featured in a subplot involving the disappearance of Richey James Edwards.

If I did a lot of work on this, we could reach GA, even FA at a push

I have this along with The Doors as my next priority for GA. Dunno which I'll start on first.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 22:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

• I've got a fair few clippings on the band, so if you do choose this to work up, keep me in mind. Hiding T 00:01, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

• Cool. Thing is, this band article easily has the potential to reach featured article status. They have been around for a long time, and there will be plenty of sources. It's just getting an article to FA that will be difficult. GA is hard enough...--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 02:46, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Cool. I would like to see this become an encyclopaedic article, but there are far too many irrelevant details in there. My biggest bug is there are alot of things in there that have happened recently, which aren't at all important, in the scheme of things. Ade1982 (talk) 20:00, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The introduction needs to be a brief run down of who they are and of their history. only the basic and major events. no details. The rest of it needs editing or a complete re-write. Needs sources too if it's gonna ever be a FA. Person642 (talk) 23:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Added Inappropriate Tone template

This article reads more like a feature from NME than an encyclopedic entry, with POV and hyperbole all over the place, (all of which, to make matters worse, and as mentioned above, is unsourced). Here are some examples of what I'm talking about:

At early gigs they were bottled and heckled from beginning to end. Bradfield and Wire hurled abuse at their audiences and tear through short sets similar to those of The Ramones famous "Twenty minutes of energy" gigs, a display of an odd punk rock style band/audience interaction that had been unheard of since the infamous riotous early gigs of Scotland's The Jesus and Mary Chain a few years earlier.

Specifically: "hurled", "tear", "odd", "unheard of", "infamous", "riotous"

Their first single for the label - Motown Junk (released on January 21, 1991) - showcased their iconoclastic ("I laughed when Lennon got shot") punk/metal influenced rock n' roll. The song also displayed their huge cultural scope with a Public Enemy-sampling intro and an outro sample of The Skids.

Specifically: "iconoclastic", "huge cultural scope".

In a now legendary interview with then New Musical Express journalist Steve Lamacq - a man known for despising anything he sees as hype or contrivance...

Specifically: "legendary", "despising".

The group's next album, The Holy Bible, released on August, regained their critical acclaim but sold extremely poorly. In fact it sold fewer copies than the previous albums and was not released at all in America, though an American mix of the album was in the can (and was released in Canada - it would later resurface as part of a 10th anniversary edition of the record). Despite this it is regarded by many as the band's magnum opus and is often voted onto lists of all time great albums.

Specifically: "extremely", "in fact", "in the can", "magnum opus".

etc. etc. throughout the whole article.

I'm not disputing the factuality of any of this information, just the way in which it is presented. Firstly, is is not sourced, and secondly, this is an encyclopedia, not a biography or a fan mag, so it needs to be toned down to something more NPOV.

Straussian (talk) 13:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with all of this and I'm currently stripping the article down on my computer. I will try and get a version up soon so people can have a look and crit before it goes over the current one. For example James Dean Bradfield does not play bass etc on the Massive Attack song, he remixed it.Darkanddivine —Preceding comment was added at 22:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

• AFAIK, James *did* play additional bass and guitar on the Massive Attack song for the remix; I just have to dig up the source. But anyway. I've also been wanting to help out on improving this article for the longest time, but haven't had free time so far. I still want to contribute whatever I can. --NicolaM (talk) 02:21, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah sorry I know about the remix, the original article suggested he played bass on the actual song rathar than the remix. Still working on a more factual re-write as I don't have much time. It is split into era's based on album, and shortened with later details stripped down significantly. Darkanddivine —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:07, 8 January 2009 (UTC).

---

Unregistered user.

I found the eccess use of brakctes to be quite distracting. examples:

Politically, the Manics appear as a socialist group — a stance inflected by their working class upbringing in Blackwood, Caerphilly, South Wales (they grew up during the miners' strike of the 1980s) as evidenced by their often highly politicised lyrics and actions (they once dedicated an award to Arthur Scargill, leader of the National Union of Mineworkers and later the Socialist Labour Party). The band also played a highly publicised gig in Cuba as guests of President Fidel Castro [1].

Although it gives a reason for their socialist leanings, I dont think it is necisary. The bit about Arthur Scargil dosnt seem apropriate. Firstly, as an apropriate example and Secondly it is extra info that isn't really needed. Politics could be dealt with later on.

The cover was highly reminiscent of The Clash's first album (simply titled The Clash)

No need to give the name of another bands album. If it's needed though, maybe rearange the sentence to say "self titled album".

In 2001 they became the first popular western rock band to play in Cuba, (at the Karl Marx Theater) and met with president Fidel Castro.

Could be incorperated into the sentence or erased completely.

The greatest hits (plus remixes) album Forever Delayed was released in...

The fact that some remixes were used is not relivant here. It would need mentioning only when going into some detail about the album. Or, again, incorperate it into the setence.

single as well as album (entitled The Great Western) were released in...

use commas instead?

---

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.146.127 (talk) 19:48, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

No mention of the Winter 2007 arena tour?

Gig was held at Manchester Central, amongst others.

Also perhaps worth mentioning the band supported the Foos a couple of weeks back? Worley-d (talk) 23:22, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

HOW ABOUT NO! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.90.237 (talk) 23:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Junk

There is A LOT of junk in this article and far too many unsubstantiated claims. This is suppose to be a wiki article, NOT a fan bio.

It needs seriously cleaning up. I've started to remove some of it but it needs a real good clear up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacobsdad (talk • contribs) 12:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)