Talk:On-base plus slugging

The list of players with a career OPS above 1.000 could in my opinion be improved by marking active players and also noting the cutoff in terms of playing time (500 games? 3000 AB? Something else?) Is there a standard wiki way of denoting active players? basbeball-reference.com has them in bold, which is one suggestion. Imsdal 13:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Why can't the math be done? I'm confused. Evil saltine 04:07, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I've cleared this part up. The math is certainly not "inexecutable." Last time I checked it's possible to add numbers. Regarding whether OPS correlates well with runs--this isn't a POV issue. One can calculate the correlation coefficient, and that is that. Where the POV comes in is if you say that players should be valued for their OPS more than other factors--but the article never says that. From Baseball Prospectus ([1]):

			Correl	 RMSE
Batting Average	.828	39.52
On-base Percentage	.866	34.16
Slugging Percentage	.890	31.56
On-base plus slugging	.922	25.54

As you can see, OPS has a very good correlation with runs scored per game. MichaelGensheimer 15:42, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Easy?

"Is easy to calculate"? That's quite a fraction there! -- Myria 06:00, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, what I think that means is that adding On-base percentage to slugging is easy to calculate, it's simple addition. Getting those two numbers requires a calculator, but they're logical formulas that are both easy to remember if you're familiar with baseball. --W.marsh 23:33, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

All you really need is the OBP + SLG box. Formulas for those are on their respective pages. If you must expand those out, then I think this is a case where finding the common denominator makes the fraction look a lot worse. (H+BB+HBP)/(AB+BB+HBP+SF) + (TB/AB) looks a lot cleaner. 172.184.169.24

OBP + SLG is faulty math. you can't add them that simply. Kingturtle 09:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

AFAICT the only distinction is roundoff error, right? If you calculated OBP and SLG to arbitrary precision and added them, you'd get the same results as with the formula given. -- Wed May 10 13:27:41 CDT 2006

The Math

What would help is an example. Start with a single player's statistics. Show the OPS derived from simply adding OBP and SLG, then show the OPS derived from the more complicated formula shown. I don't have time to do this now, but I'll get to it later if nobody else is interested. -- JustSayin 14:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Just add it like a normal fraction or decimal. If someone has an OBP of .250 and a SLG of .700, then their OPS is .950. 71.119.249.177 (talk) 00:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

defending the changes I made regarding OPS calculation

Data as reported by espn.com on May 16, 2006:

Pujols OBP .469 SLG .833 OPS 1.302 Giambi OBP .480 SLG .654 OPS 1.134 Thome OBP .438 SLG .694 OPS 1.131

If you put OBP+SLG in a calculator, you get:

Pujols OBP+SLG 1.302 Giambi OBP+SLG 1.134 Thome OBP+SLG 1.132

The only difference is Thome's, and it results from rounding to the thousandths place in OBP and SLG. Therefore, you can get OPS from OBP+SLG. -—Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.136.233 (talk • contribs) 16 May, 2006

Didn't you just prove Kingturtle's point above? If Thome's is different, then the math is not precisely OBP+SLG. It's a quick and dirty approximation, yes, but not precise. You need to calculate it with a common denominator. I'm not a math person, though, so I won't tinker with the calculation in the article. -Phoenixrod 07:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

The way OPS is defined is mathematically the same as OBP + SLG. OBP is defined to be ${\frac {H+BB+HBP}{AB+SF+BB+HBP}}$ and SLG is defined to be ${\frac {TB}{AB}}$. So to say that $OPS={\frac {H+BB+HBP}{AB+SF+BB+HBP}}+{\frac {TB}{AB}}$, but does not equal OBP + SLG is bogus. It's also bogus to say that the sum of those two fractions is different than the fraction obtained by taking a common denominator and adding.

So it's not true that OPS needs to be computed as a massive fraction by using a common denominator. You can do that, and then if you convert to decimal form, there'll be some rounding error. But if you convert the two fractions to decimal and then add them, that's fine too, as long as you round off to a greater precision.

The only reason there is a difference in the computations above is that ESPN has rounded the OBP and SLG numbers to the thousandths place. The result of adding OBP and SLG (rounded to the thousandths places) certainly gives OPS; however, it may differ from the result of computing everything from scratch and converting to decimal at the end (rounding to the thousandths spot) by as much as 0.001. This just demonstrates the simple fact that if you want a number that is of a certain precision, you should use numbers that are more precise to compute it! To reiterate, OPS is OBP + SLG when considering exact numbers, but if you want OPS to some precision, you're going to need more precise OBP and SLG. --C S (Talk) 09:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

That's the most clear explanation of it that I've ever read. Thanks! I'll go back to non-math pursuits now. :) -Phoenixrod 19:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

What about sacrifice hits (bunts, squeeze plays?)99.238.12.117 (talk) 23:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Sacrifice hits are not included in either the numerator or the denominator. BRMo (talk) 23:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It's like significant figures in a science class. If you round before the end, you'll get a different answer.

29 + 25 = 54 which rounds down to 50; if you round before you get 30 + 30 = 60 71.119.249.177 (talk) 01:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Cardinal sin

None of the terms (BB, H, HBP, SF) seem to be defined anywhere on the page. Sure a true baseball fan might know them, but a math student would get no credit for this fancy formula! --Mike 19:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I've added them. And Cardinals don't sin. Just ask Albert. Fan-1967 19:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure they can. Just ask the Cubs. Hossrex (talk) 04:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Percentage

This might be picky, but is it kosher to call a number in the range [0.000, 1.000] a 'percentage'? It's common enough usage I'm sure, but just seems sloppy to me. 75.70.42.78 15:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

They may not technically be percentages, but that's what they're called. 71.119.249.177 (talk) 01:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Can this article make it clear how to get park adjusted OPS+? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.212.61 (talk) 23:14, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Steroid Asterisk

I'd like to see references to McGwire and Bonds notated to show that their numbers may have been chemically altered. The best statistical years for both are tainted.

Tapered (talk) 06:19, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Unless MLB does it, we shouldn't. Kingturtle (talk) 07:18, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Until or if an official, comprehensive list appears, of everyone who ever used steroids and in which seasons, no asterisks connected with steroids are appropriate. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 07:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)