Talk:John Gotti

A Few Points

In this article there are numerous accounts of John Gotti being arrested, and being convicted, but there is no real mention of how difficult it was to ultimately convict Gotti. He was acquitted twice of his first two murder trials in the 80's. This is where the article mentions 'overwhelming evidence', but his last conviction was heavily influenced by the fact that the court refused to let Gotti use the lawyer he had used in the previous two trials and they had the jury switched at the last minute, rightfully fearing that jury members might be subject to bribes.

Also, the characterization of Henry Hill and Jimmy Burke as Mob King Pin's is hardly accurate, neither of them were bosses, or captians, or even made men. I assume it was put in because of their role in the film Goodfellas

--SunshineOdyssey (talk) 18:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

This article is weak because some editors who hate mafia/Gotti keep stacking it full of info as long as it portrays Gotti as a horrible man. If you have any sources, please drop them here. Meishern (talk) 02:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Career

One paragraph in this section describes how Gotti got close to boss Carlo Gambino while acting as Capo - the very next paragaph describes how he usurps boss Paul Castellano. There is nothing inbetween to inform that reader that Gambino had died in 1976 and Castellano was his successor. It could be confusing for readers with no prior research. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.16.229.138 (talk) 00:32, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

GOOD PHOTO

I was just about to say that this photo freakin blows. Nobody can recognize this person by this photo. I'm not trying to represent a reputed mob boss, I am just saying that for encyclopedic purposes it is hard to recognize the person!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 17:02, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely. This is not even remotely representative of him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.115.119.79 (talk) 22:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

We do need a photo that is representative of him during the majority of his life. Not to glamorize the man, but he was noteworthy in the media in part because of how flamboyantly he lived his lifestyle. At least the lead-in photo should reflect that. We wouldn't have Adolf Hitler's prison photo as the lead in to his article, or Lenin's corpse to his. 216.7.243.253 (talk) 17:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

This was his most recent photo. That was how he was living his life for the last several years. This only upsets his admirers/ men with crushes on him. --Don't glamorize (talk) 19:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)Don't glamorize

I knew somebody would pull the "glamorize" card. We are not trying to glamorize some mobster, but we are trying to write an academic article. What's with some people and the negativity, we are all in good faith here. There's always one or two people with everything that try to twist up something and offer the negativity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 00:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the main photo of a deceased individual is supposed to be representative of the subject when they were most publicly relevant. This is the reason why, for example, Marlon Brando's main photo is a screencap from his acting heyday and not a photo of him as a fat old man. If "last known photo" was the applicable standard, Wikipedia would be filled with nothing but pictures of shriveled up, unrecognizable old men and women. A better picture is needed here.-PassionoftheDamon (talk) 05:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This article needs to show Gotti when he was in his prime as a mobster, and not a few days before his death. (Why don't we post a photo of Patrick Swayze the way he looks now, dying of cancer, instead of how he looked healthy.) The majority of the article is regarding the 1970-80s. Are we going to start publishing photos of famous individuals on their death beds now? This photo makes him look like some senile old man who forgot to wear dentures. How can anyone believe he ran the NYC underworld? I will look for a normal PD photo. Meishern (talk) 13:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Please don't compare Marlon Brando and John Gotti

--Don't glamorize (talk) 19:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)Don't glamorize

Early Life

Someone placed the following quotes under early life:

   "I took garbage Gotti blood and contaminated it with DiGiorgio blood."

[1] Gotti was also recorded on video as saying to his daughter Victoria

   "I'm not your father or John's father or these kids's grandfather."

[2]

They are quotes recorded in the last 5-7 years of his life during a prison visit with his daughter/brother/grandson. The last quote is quite a bit out of context too, if the whole paragraph of the transcript is read. I can't figure out how they relate to John Gotti's early life. I will move them somewhere else. Meishern (talk) 13:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

It did not occur 'many times in many videos'. It was 1 prison visit that lasted 1 hour and was broken up into multiple parts by the website you are using as a source. Don't glamorize, you obviously have strong, negative feelings about John Gotti. This is an encyclopedia. Perhaps you should stay away from editing articles about topics where your emotions skew the content. Meishern (talk) 01:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Update

I will try to rewrite the middle portion of this article using sources. Based on reading what's here, it is hard to understand how this man became the most famous gangster of the 1980-90s. After reading this biased article, people may come away with an impression that this man could barely tie his own shoes. If he was such a moron, why was he allowed to take over the biggest NYC mafia family by thousands of its hardened criminal members? Meishern (talk) 13:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Improved Picture!

I just wanted to say that the picture is much better. If someone is about to die, and has a mutilated face, it is hard to recognize them, this picture at least is a representative photo for academic purposes.

If anyone does change the picture again though, there are some excellent more high resolution looking photos by Time Magazine. Please do a Google/Yahoo search and click on show large or wallpaper size, and high res Time Magazine photos will come up of him walking outside with Jackie and Pete, as well as outside the Ravenite possibly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 23:57, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Time magazine photo is copyrighted. We can't use it without permission. Meishern (talk) 09:52, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Can we use the Time magazine photo with permission? I would highly doubt that Time would care if we asked to use a web-version of the picture. If it is web-version, it probably isn't the best one they have, and they might not care. This is an academic article, and we would attribute all rights to their magazine if needed. I mean Time seems to be a supporter of eduction, I wouldn't see how they would object. It would be one thing if we got a top quality high res photo that was good enough to use on merchandise or something, but if it is a web photo for the encyclopedia, we wouldn't bother distributing it, and if we put it anywhere except this page, we can accept the penalty, but it wouldn't be necessary because nobody would bother doing that. So is it possible to get those?

More Needed in Article

Looking at Salvatore Gravano's article this article should be at least that long. This article is just a small sentence in comparison to his article, and John's story being the boss should have just as much if not a lot more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 00:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)