Talk:Jap

japrocksampler

English musicologist and archeologist, Julian Cope has just prodeced an authoritve book called Japrocksampler. There is no negative connotation, just a cool sounding contraction! [mangonorth]]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.228.152.208 (talk) 11:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Use of Jap by British teachers

Removed the part about use of Jap in english classrooms. I live in England and it's a definate taboo. It's on par with saying something like "paki" - --Wavetwista 22:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, in my Canadian classrooms, it has been used in a completely non-pejoritive sense.

Quit arguing in the damn page. There is no citations or proof of Japanese people calling each other "Jap" in Japan. - GZAdmin

This site is full of racial discrimination against us Japanese. Delete it as soon as possible!

Additional subject

Thanks Tokek! Good extra link that is informative. JungleCat 13:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Jap in Japan

Out of interest, is "Jap" considered a racial slur in Japan? Thanks. PizzaMargherita 05:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

From the article: "In Japanese dictionaries, the term "Jap" is only defined as a disparaging term used against the Japanese people, like it is the case in many English language dictionaries." The answer would be yes (it's mainly considered as an English word).—Tokek 17:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, I stopped at the introduction. I have promoted that sentence to the intro and done some cleanup, I hope it's ok. A link to another Japanese online dictionary for "Jap" would be nice. Thanks! PizzaMargherita 17:24, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I have added a link to an online dictionary provided by Yahoo! Japan, which is definitely a more recognisable brand in the English speaking part of the world than Goo. If you have specific ideas about finding more sources yourself, I might be able to assist you, however right now I don't see the need for too many references because dictionary definitions tend to be easily verifiable and available. —Tokek 05:19, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

No, I think two is adequate, thanks very much! PizzaMargherita 08:15, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

unequivocally derogatory?

I take issue with this term being reported exclusively as a derogatory slur.

In Australia, the term Jap has of course a strong history of usage as a derogatory term. In light of this socio-political context as a slur - and I suggest this without being trite or disingenuous - there is evidence in (Australian) society that "jap" is also used as a simple contraction, one that in my humble opinion (having lived in Australia and Japan), has gained acceptance in recent years, now that closer relations between Japan and Australia are moving on from the context of WW2. A simple case in point: In Australia, the Japanese Pumpkin variety is popularly referred to as "Jap Pumpkin" No, not by redneck racist farm labourers, but by everyone familiar with the vegetable. ..Even radical left wing student organic co-operatives use the term!

It would be ridiculous to try and assert that the Japanese themselves use this contraction. although, as you can see at the following link, the Japanese are aware of the western contraction for their beloved pumpkin: http://fruitbat.at.webry.info/200608/article_11.html

The term is [also in Australia] often used in reference to Japanese made cars and equipment, often without rascist connotation, but with reverence for their excellent engineering and reliability, without any racist undertones. The manner of it's use more often like a term of endearment than a sneering or patronising slur. The culture of political sensitivity/correctness (whichever you prefer) has kept the contraction from reentering mainstream use. Yes, All of this is incredibly hard to establish in an cyclopaedic format, but for any one researching this term, and reading this discussion, I hope it provides a different perspective... mangonorth--—The preceding comment was added by 210.189.164.104 (talk • contribs) December 15, 2006.

I think it should be mentioned that the term is frequently used as a non-racist abbreviation on the internet, especially when referring to different versions of software. When the 2.0 update came out for the PSP, forum users were often frustrated that the word “JAP” was automatically censored, even though they were merely trying to identify which version of the update they were talking about. (JAP version as opposed to US version) Xargon666x6 07:03, 09 May 2006 (UTC)

In Australia, 'Jap' is a common, casual neutral term - completely unlike the word 'nigger' - like pom, kiwi, brit or yank. Kipwatson (talk) 14:26, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Australia is mentioned only once in the article, so if anyone would like expand on it with proper source that would be more informative. However I would assume that with the exception of a small number of knowledgeable Australiaphiles, citizens of both US and Japan are largely unaware of any neutral non-accidental usage of the term.

This also raises a question if racist terms can ever knowingly and respectfully become non-derogatory. I assume such cases are rare. How do you measure the level or derogatoriness one implied or did not imply when s/he uses a term with racist usage, though?

With regard to abbreviation, one could alternatively use ISO abbreviations JA (for the language) and JP, JPN (for the country) instead. —Tokek (talk) 04:05, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

You say "can any racist term become non-derogatory", but that's begging the question!! It's not a racist term, it's simply a contraction. It's not like 'nigger', which has a history of being a term of explicit racial inferiority. Jap has a history of being used as a colloquial term, part of that history took place during the war. It's never been a racist term - at least not until this recent artificial attempt to inflate it into one. Kipwatson (talk) 04:44, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Parallel Slurs?

To equate the term "Jap" with "nigger" is off the mark, they are not on the same level at all - african americans do refer to themselves as "niggers" both ironically and explicitly. A far better example (and fitting) is to draw a parallel with the term "gaijin", which has a similar derogatory history, and confused acceptance at present. If anyone cany refute this change, lets talk! mangonorth --—The preceding comment was added by 210.189.164.104 (talk • contribs) December 15, 2006.

Jap in Australia

I know for a fact that jap is used totally without any discriminatory meaning in Australia, it's even used by High School teachers to refer to the language and the people. No connotations implied. Not sure how to source this though. Any ideas? +Hexagon1 ^(t) 08:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Generally, Australia is more "accustomed" to racial slurs. For example, "Nigger" is used as a friendly greeting, especially among friends. This would be completely unacceptable elsewhere. Yongke 04:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't say "nigger" is a friendly greeting, not by a long shot, it's regarded as offensive and if a teacher tried to refer to an African language as a "nigger tongue" they would be fired and possibly prosecuted almost instantly. This is not the case with jap, the first time I heard overseas it's a racial slur I was very surprised. +Hexagon1 ^(t) 00:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

"Nigger" is not used as a friendly greeting at all, that is just plain incorrect. In Australia, "Jap" is quite often used as a simple abbreviation of Japanese, in the same way that people would say "Aussie" or "Yank" when refering to something Australian or North American. There is no negative connontation in any of these references whatsoever, and any offense is purely in the mind of the speaker/listener. Machalel (talk) 03:08, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

What's the point?

The following statement has no value in this article:

Some in the United States Marine Corps also tried to combine the word "Japs" with "Apes" to create a new description, "Japes", for the Japanese. However, this new word never became popular.

Seems like a sorry attempt by someone to create verbal ammunition for lame racists. Panda

non racist usage

How about this: "Jap" is an abbreviation of the word Japanese or Japan, depending on the context. It can also be shorthand for referring to a Japanese person. I guess the term "Afro" should now be considered racist, along with "Aussie" and "Brit." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.58.29.180 (talk) 04:59, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I think most ethnic/racist slurs can be used in a non-racist manner. paki-shop, chink-food, sup nigger, jap car. however I would put the usage down to ignorance of the offense caused, rather than acceptability of the word. gaijin is a little different, it only causes offense to a minority (my opinion) and whereas Japanese people often refrain from using the term, foreigners refer to themselves as gaijin constantly. I also think people try to justify their usage of the word by claiming it was not their intention to offend, when they knew all along it was offensive. If a school in a certain country allows the use of the word, then its down to their ignorance or intention to offend, rather than due to the word be OK to use. Sennen goroshi 04:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. People use the term 1.) because they have ill intent 2.) because they're ignorant and/or 3.) because they are lazy. Just because someone doesn't have ill intent doesn't mean it's not offensive. I am Japanese-Canadian but I live in Japan. I don't think it's the people in Japan who would be the most offended, it's the Japanese and Japanese decedent living in other countries (especially ones with long history's of racial slurs against the Japanese and other similar communities) that are the most offended. If people are lazy it's far easier to abbreviate with the common "j-" which then just brings people back to number 2: ignorant. Just some people use the term without ill intent DOES NOT mean the word has been reappropriated (unlike reappropriated terms such as "hapa"). "jap" is not equitable with "gaijin"; it is more equitable with other racial slurs like "chink" or "gook". It's always inappropriate to use those so the same standard should apply to this derogatory word. "gaijin" is used a lot more foreigners living in Japan, so this word also isn't equal.--Hydenobuyuki (talk) 18:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Except that quite a few Japanese people do not think that "jap" is offensive. It all depends on how the word is used. The word itself is not offensive, it is the intent of the person using it that makes it a "bad word". Machalel (talk) 03:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I disagree and reiterate what I already wrote. What people from Japan think is not really as important as the Japanese foreign national and Japanese descendant communities (as I have previously written above). It's not like "Jap" is the only word that goes through the slow process of reappropriation and should be exempt from this process because it sounds similar to the people name.--Hydenobuyuki (talk) 02:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

On neutrality

The article injects POV that the Japanese are "apathetic," followed by mentioning that Jap.com is registered to a Japanese. The fact that Jap.com's domain name is registered by a Japanese does not indicate apathy on the registrar's part nor apathy on the Japanese population in general. —Tokek (talk) 13:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

And the sentence doesn't indicate that it does. I doubt it's important enough for an encyclopedia article anyway.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:22, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: "I doubt it's important enough..." which is why I removed it before, but someone reinserted it. Such is life on Wikipedia. —Tokek (talk) 12:52, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I removed it again, so your concerns should be taken care of. The bit about the 2004 study is still in there, as it appears to be a real study.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:50, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

Since there is constantly vandalism from IP-address-only users, couldn't the article be locked or editing restricted to logged in users? --Hydenobuyuki (talk) 14:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Many large online communities use “Jap” without knowing it is offensive

I’m not Japanese and I don’t know any Japanese people, but I was not aware that “Jap” was offensive until I read this article (And I’m in my 30s).

I have been involved in many online communities concerning various Japanese artforms (such as videogames, anime and porn). Within these communities, I have seen “Jap” used many times. In all these years, I have never been aware of anyone either taking offense to the word, or warning others not to use it. And most of us have the greatest of respect for the Japanese because we love their work.

I can’t argue that the word should not be seen as offensive because you can’t tell people what to take offence to (even though it seems ridiculous to me that shortening a country’s name to three letters could ever be offensive). My real point here is that I think this article should note that a great many people are simply not aware that the abbreviation is offensive. Especially online, it would seem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grand Dizzy (talk • contribs) 16:34, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know any sites that use the word 'Jap' but I know television shows that do. Sailor_Moon (talk) 13:59, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Jap is not offensive

It isn't. Many members of The Greatest Generation use it, and as such it should be used by Americans all over. We do a disservice to out Veterns by labeling it a racist epithet. I think this whole article should be scrapped, or at least something added proving that it is a legitimate term!

69.122.133.58 (talk) 15:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)