Talk:Walt Disney

Antisemitism?

The fact that the majority of the discussion page is dedicated to a discussion on Disney's possible antisemitism warrants a mention of it in the article. This website is intended to be objective.

The allegation that Walt Disney was an antisemite has been the subject of jokes on both The Simpsons and Family Guy. I think that makes the allegation prominent enough to be confirmed or denied in the article, if only in brief. As in, "Rumors that Disney was an antisemite, the subject of jokes on The Simpsons and Family Guy, are unproven." Or that the rumors are true. One way or the other. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

That's a crappy way of introducing the subject of anti-semitism regarding Walt Disney in this article. I mean, that would allow other users to say anything, like: "Contrary to my neighbour's statements to the public, Walt Disney was not a horse molesting, porn loving, child molester." There are many rumors and myths surrounding the man And being the internet, there'd be ton of idiots waiting to make such statements.

However, there have been several books that have spoken in detail about his political activities, personal behaviour and his alleged anti-semitism. Quote from a propper source instead of Family guy or the Simpsons. A good place to start would be with something like: Walt Disney: Hollywood's Dark Prince by Marc Eliot. But, to be honest, there's not a lot of evidence to support the claim and most of it is hearsay and conjecture. (Bobbo9000 (talk) 17:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC))

Hearsay and conjecture are good for hyping book sales, especially about someone who has no chance for rebuttal. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:47, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, the TV shows referenced are satires. They're not commenting on Disney, they're commenting on people who have commented on Disney. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

^^ Absolutely. (Bobbo9000 (talk) 01:55, 11 September 2008 (UTC))

This is all fine and dandy, but I really don't want to have to trawl through a discussions page to determine if there is consensus about anti-Semitism, or any other negative personal preferences, that has any basis in fact. A section making/questioning/refuting these accusations, which are indubitably in the popular conciousness (as Family Guy / Simpsons / whatever references demonstrate), is necessary to stop curious readers like myself going "well, THAT was hardly encyclopaedic if it doesn't even bother to address one of the key questions about the man (the MAN, not HIS BUSINESS, which is what this article's supposed to be about!) that got me researching his life in the first place!

Ace42 (talk) 07:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, the German version of the article about Leni Riefenstahl's movie "Olympia" states that Walt Disney sympathized with the Nazis and invited Leni Riefenstahl to the Disney studios, although Riefenstahl was outlawed in the USA because of the Kristallnacht which happened shortly after Riefenstahls arrival in the USA to promote the Olympia movie. He didn't show the movie in the Disney cinema though, most likely because he was afraid of the reactions of the people.

I don't know where this information originates from, but it seems like it's correct to me. 89.197.79.238 (talk) 03:05, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Being a Nazi supporter in 1936 does not equate to being anti-Semitic or approving of the Holocaust. If he still liked the Nazis in 1946, then you've got something. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:07, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Please tell me you're joking... The Nuremburg laws were introduced in 1935, and if you had read (or at least had any knowledge of the contents of) Mein Kampf you would realise what a silly argument you're trying to make... Pennywisepeter (talk) 10:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

What evidence do you have that Disney or other Hitler supporters had read Hitler's book? Lindbergh, for example, supported Hitler initially because he thought the threat of Communism was greater than the threat of Fascism. He changed his views on Hitler when he found out about the Holocaust. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 12:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

But you specifically say "Being a Nazi supporter in 1936 does not equate to being anti-Semitic". I know nothing of Disney's views, or whether he read Mein Kampf. All i'm picking you up on is that being a Nazi supporter in 1936, a full year after the Nuremburg laws were enacted, would almost certainly make you an anti-semite. You seem very keen to jump to Disney's defence when I have been making no accusations about his beliefs at all. What evidence do you have to support your assertion he "changed his views when he heard about the holocaust"?. It sounds a particularly fatuous comment. I know this debate adds nothing to the article (which is what a talk page is for) and for that I'm sorry, but I felt you needed to be picked up on what I see as an incorrect assertion. That is all. Pennywisepeter (talk) 13:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Apologies, I misread your piece and attributed the statement you gave to Disney, not Lindbergh. However, I think my original point stands. Pennywisepeter (talk) 15:35, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Lindbergh. I don't know about Disney. I'm just saying that just because he, at one time, thought the Nazis were OK, doesn't automatically make him anti-semitic. What's needed is some actual evidence that he said anti-semitic words like "I hate Jews" or whatever. A lot of people thought the Nazis were OK. WWII changed a lot of minds on that subject. It would be more interesting to find out what Disney thought of them after the war. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 18:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

(od) German press loves to blame the evils of Nazism on everyone except the Germans, Der Spiegel is a good example for that. Disney admired Riefenstahl's work from the 30's, indicated so when they met, when Disney also stated he could not hire Riefenstahl because of the potential impact on his reputation. As for allegations of anti-Semitism, Marc Elliot's book isn't sourced well enough for the claims he makes.
   More generally, Europe before WWII was a nationalistic mess where autocracy and dictatorship were more admired as expressions of strength than despotic evil incarnate. There were movements toward autocracy in the U.S. as well.
   I have no problem with the article representing centrist (and well-sourced in whatever references are cited) views on more controversial aspects of Disney's politics, but that he was a Jew-hating fascist and the article is tagged as NPOV because his evil side is not covered in detail is, I'm sorry, quite inappropriate. And, BTW, who here in this discussion is actually old enough to remember Disney? PetersV       TALK 06:48, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I suggest Brode's "Multiculturalism and the Mouse" where you can read how Disney and his studio actually dealt with stereotypes (popular as humor in the 30's) and with Jewish actors (more supportive than any other studio). I'll be deleting the recently added tag. PetersV       TALK 06:57, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

There is a WIki article ot a book that discusses aspects of Disney's work which provoked the above criticisms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood%27s_dark_prince The fact that this article has no 'Criticisms' section shoes not that there are no reliable rererences, there are PLENTY. It shows that Disney has a stranglehold on this page. Exactly what WIkipedia and it's community must work against. 122.107.171.30 (talk) 12:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Dark Prince is overrated and undersourced. And flags not at half mast at Disneyland is an outright lie. Just more rumor-monging someone made money on by putting it in their "exposé." PetersV       TALK 17:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Without being in a position (yet) to say add any substance those claims of anti-semitism, I just wanted to add that coming here I was pretty surprised that the article doesn't even mention them. Like somebody said above, references to Disney's anti-semitism are all over the place in popular culture, and personally that prompted me to come to this page to find out more about it. Just to give you an example of such a reference, take The Daily Show, 2007-06-05, where a piece by Rob Riggles says the following: Walt Disney had a dream. To build an amusement park where millions of children could come to experience the happiest place on earth. He also had another dream: that his head would be frozen. So one day he could be brought back to a world...without Jews. Of course this kind of thing doesn't prove anything, but it definitely indicates that claims of anti-semitism are there in the discourse. Also apparently there's a book out on the subject, as mentioned above, and overrated or not, it's been deemed worthy of publishing by major publishing houses, and it has seen several editions. If that doesn't warrant at least a paragraph, then what will? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lodp (talk • contribs) 17:35, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

i agree that there should be mention to this matter. i also came to wikipedia to find out if these allegations were true (at least to find another page to confirm this). you won't find it in disney's web page, duh. just because in ford.com you won't find that henry ford was an antisemite, it doesn't mean that he wasn't. to be a nazi in the 30's may not mean that you were an antisemite, only if you were IN germany (1- propaganda and the fact of living in a totalitarian regime with controlled media, 2- and i'm not justifying, but some people cared more about inflation and war reparations than about jews, which is also terrible).--Camilorojas (talk) 20:45, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Look, Disney supported actors like Ed Wynn with real roles when Jews got nothing from the large studios. Coming here to find the anti-Semitic clap trap and other urban legends like not lowering the flags at Disneyland when Kennedy was shot does not make this the place to repeat all that garbage. Qué lástima that those looking for that crap here can't find it. As for the Dark Prince book, someone deleted as "original research" a pointer to someone's picture album from their visit to Disneyland clearly showing flags at half-mast after Kennedy's assassination. WP is the only place where showing up blatant lies aimed at posthumous character assassination get deleted as "original research" allowing urban legends to live on. PetersV       TALK 05:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Let's not forget Disney was an anti-Semite, just look at Mickey Mouse, he has a long nose. Jews have long noses. Ergo Disney = anti-Semite, Q.E.D. I've read that too in books "about" Disney. PetersV       TALK 05:43, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll never understand how this rumor become so popular over the last few years. It comes out of nowhere and everyone uses it for a joke. I don't get it, it isn't funny. Maybe it's not mentioned in the article because it's: #1. Not a funny joke. #2. Not true. --blm07 であります！ 15:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

But since you agree that the rumors are widespread (and again, there's a book out there published by major publishing houses in several editions), don't you think the article should address those rumors? Obviously there are people coming here to find out if there's any substance to those allegations. The allegations may be bogus and unfair, but there's no reason in my mind why there shouldn't be a balanced account of the issue in this article.Lodp (talk) 02:34, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Straight from disney Creative Explosion: Walt's Political Outlook. Americans in the early/mid 20th century had general image of discrimination towards different ethnicities, political agendas, and religion. Jews were no exception. While not "concrete, Walt Disney did ally himself with popular political/social groups that tended to promote antisemitic views. Reputed author Neal Gabler wrote a a biography containing a short perspective on Disney's alleged-antisemitic believes.

Here are the facts: We have two books, one by Neal Gabler titled "The Triumph of the American Imagination", and Marc Eliot's "Walt Disney: Hollywood's Dark Prince", in addition to the various sources providing commentary and other op/eds which can be found via google. All this considered, we definitely have enough information to, in the least, include a section on antisemitism/racism, perhaps "allegations of antisemitism" or more NPOV/PC "Controversies". Title is up to consensus anyways. There is no evidence that says "OMG WALT DISNEY WAS A JEW HATING BASTARD", but there is a lot of fluff and mainstream recognition to support at minimum an allegations section. Yes, it's controversial, and yes some users might be offended, but the sources are there. We as editors don't have the official privilege of imposing our POV on the article. I could not care less what you think of Disney, your views on the books above, or why you think "it isn't a fact." I really don't, because I don't need to. If the information talks about it, and it is notable, then we have to include it. We can't axe books because it they're debunked fringe-theories.

Someone mentioned how Disney can't offer a rebuttal (I think, don't crucify me here), but many people have responded in his name, including Disney (link I posted above). And linking Eliot's book would be beneficial to a supporter, as it has a infinite amount of reviewers who have chastised him as writing...err...bullshit. Look, I'm all for consensus and collaboration, but from what I've read this whole discussion has been either a serious misunderstanding or a comedic play. The argument shouldn't start at yes/no but how/what. Crafting the paragraph shouldn't be too hard, but I predict a lot of reverts especially considering the rather-emotional involvement from some of the users here. Wikifan12345 (talk) 05:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Eliot's book is sensationalist urban legend reproduction rumor monging and his # 1 claim to fame meal ticket, just check his web site. Read the book I suggested earlier for a balanced view, i.e., which studios actually made opportunities for Jews? That would be Disney. "Balance" is not simply picking source 1 says "x" and source 2 says "y". I have no issue with including "Rumors" as a section, but I'm sorry, the "exposés" about Disney's "anti-semitism" all deal with generalities and implications, whereas reading about what Disney actually did in terms of concrete actions show quite the opposite. You repeat something enough times and people start to believe it.

   I've even read of an incident where a university professor made Disney's "anti-Semitism" a lynch pin in course examining media industry anti-Semitism, who, when confronted with facts, threw the bearer of those facts out of their office screaming (essentially) that they were anti-Semites too. PetersV       TALK 00:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Noted, but it isn't our call to say what is what. You may have an opinion of the book, as do I, but we cannot censor literature simply because we believe it is sensational/false/whatever. Someone wrote a book, someone else wrote another book, articles have been written, Disney has responded, former employees have commented....these are things that matter, your POV does not. Am I making sense here? If you're implying this is an attempt to deface the article with antisemitic rhetoric than you are wrong. It seems that's where you're are arguing from which I understand completely. Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

It is our call as to what sources are reliable and are not. Just because someone is dead doesn't mean that the same care which we were legally obligated to follow to avoid slandering living individuals should be thrown away upon said individual's death. I have no issue with including Eliot, indeed, an entire "Rumors" section (not having one would certainly leave the impression of "censorship"), but we cannot represent Eliot as a reliable source when there are other sources with details which directly refute his contentions. My opinion of Eliot and his book are irrelevant, what matters is constructing a responsible narrative representing what is, and is not, specifically substantiated.

   I have a problem when, with Eliot's book, including a link to pictures showing flags did fly at half-staff at Kennedy's assassination in the article is deleted as "original research" while Eliot's repetition of the no flags at half staff urban legend remains uncontested. PetersV       TALK

You're fixated on Eliot, he isn't the only source. As stated above, Disney, as in Disney Company, has provided an opinion on the allegations. That alone is enough to warrant an inclusion, just that source. Factor in Eliot, Neal Gabler and the enormous amount of information on the internet only re-enforces the need. Again, as I said before, I do not care about your opinion of Eliot. We cite Eliot according to what he has said and the responses given, i.e "Author x accuses x of being x, however x, x, x and x disagree because of x, x, and x etc...etc..." We aren't vilifying Disney, we are only presenting what is said. I do understand your frustration but I hope you will come to understand. I encourage you to read through this. Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:25, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I think we're agreeing to agree, there's no "ownership" issue here. I've just been frustrated by those who choose only to believe authors like Eliot. PetersV       TALK 03:14, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

But my post is not about "believing authors like Eliot." I don't care about Eliot, and it shouldn't matter if other people do. In regards to the inclusion, I will hopefully post a short paragraph example here within the next week or so unless someone else does it first. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:41, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Looking forward to reading your paragraph. The issue of whether or not there's any substance to those claims has to be addressed in the article. I think the paragraph should state that rumors about and (comedic) references to Disney's (supposed) anti-semitism are widespread, and include a short review of the evidence both for and against. Maybe the paragraph should also state that these things have to be judged by the standards of Disney's own time (just like for example Abraham Lincoln nowadays would be considered a vicious white supremacist for some of his remarks on race, while in the moral zeitgeist of his day, he was a progressive on the issue). "Allegations of Anti-Semitism" would be a good title. Lodp (talk) 14:54, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Dead or not, allegations such as anti-Semitism have to have FAR more basis than appearing in some sensationalist book or being repeated as urban legends. Those are not "allegations." VЄСRUМВА  ♪  19:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

A pro-Nazi would not have been likely to make the notable anti-Nazi Donald Duck cartoon Der Fuehrer's Face. Edison (talk) 13:56, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Let's just let these months-old discussions die, shall we? This talk page is far too long as it is. Powers ^T 15:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Walt Disney; the lost and found years

after the war , on December 10 , 1945 , Disney found the prints of the 1924 silent movie , Peter Pan has been an lost film , it is now translated in two-color Technicolor and its televison and flim showings, according to the 1998 vhs released of Peter Pan an 1953 flim , Disney watches the talkie version in color , when prdocution on Peter Pan begin in December 6, 1952 with the priemiere of MGMs' Singing in the Rain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.89.47.122 (talk) 17:25, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Is there anyone on this site who could translate the above into English? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

In a word, no. VЄСRUМВА  ♪  19:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Nazi Sympathizer?

I was surprised to find nothing here about Walt Disney's record as a Nazi sympathizer. I'd add it myself, but lack the necessary sources to do so properly. If anyone else does have such documentation, please help improve the article in this respect. Thank you. RobertAustin (talk) 11:20, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

No such documentation exists because Walt did not have any particular affinity for the National Socialist movement or any other political movement for that matter. The recent Gabler and Barrier biographies thoroughly debunk this myth. -- Uncle Dick (talk) 16:28, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Disney admired Leni Riefenstahl as an actress, that's about it. Oh, and urban legend has it that Hitler was a Mickey Mouse fan, making Mickey and its creator Nazi sympathizers. I've actually read that being contended. (!) VЄСRUМВА  ♪  19:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Bad guy

Found this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA2hWgvZKo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcriminalcrackdown%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2Fsearch%3Fupdated%2Dmin%3D2009%2D01%2D01T00%253A00%253A00%2D08%253A00%26updated%2Dmax%3D2010%2D01%2D01T&feature=player_embedded

But whether or not the accusations are true, this article is WAY TOO SUGAR COATED! Also, there was a lot of controversy around the Disney strike so that part should be expanded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.253.167.56 (talk) 07:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

When you have a real source, please feel free to discuss. We've already gone through books like the Dark Prince being a load of repetitions of unsubstantiated urban legends. Let's not have more of the same. VЄСRUМВА  ♪  19:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Bobby Driscoll

The article should mention the fact that Disney sexually abused Bobby Driscoll. (92.11.217.30 (talk) 17:43, 15 October 2009 (UTC))

See above regarding a credible source. VЄСRUМВА  ♪  19:16, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

anti-semitism MYTH

allright, so there may not be sources that confirm or disprove disneys antisemitism, but i think that being such a relied upon source wikipedia has the obligation to atleast NOTE that such allegations (may it or may it not be true) are obviously existent and widely spread at that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.69.68.216 (talk) 12:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

But how widely spread are they, really? Powers ^T 16:06, 23 October 2009 (UTC)