Talk:Luise Rainer

Place of birth

According to the IMDb, she was born in Dusseldorf, Germany. This article says Vienna, Austria. Anyone know which is right? --Feitclub 21:52, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

According to Halliwell's Who's Who in the Movies, Dusseldorf was the place of her birth. But when Rainer arived in Hollywood Louis B. Mayer insisted her birthplace be "changed" to Vienna and her nationality to Austrian. Crisso 16:03, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

When she came to England she provided details of her life and career to Pitmans for their brilliant and thoroughly checked book "Who's Who in the Theatre". She said she was born and educated in Vienna but that her first stage appearance was in Dusseldorf. In addition she gave her parent's names. I find it hard to believe that Mayer would have had any influence over her or her correct details in 1946. David Lauder 10:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I asked the Düsseldorf register office for a copy of her birth certificate - she was definitely born there. --141.20.126.151 (talk) 14:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The consensus from biographical references (2 cited) state Vienna as her birthplace. The only one so far that disputes it is Halliwell's, however their material on her is minute (75 words), and written in the form of an anecdote without a source. The others are much more biographical, even quoting her. Apparently she studied acting with Reinhardt in Germany. Therefore, we cannot simply change her place of birth without declaring that these other sources are wrong.

Other books that have her born in Vienna are: The MGM Stock Company: the Golden Era; Hollywood Musicals Year by Year; Inside: The Biography of John Gunther; The Quiet Invaders: The story of the Austrian Impact Upon America; and Katharine Hepburn: A Remarkable Woman. There are others. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 20:11, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

This German article states that she was born in Düsseldorf, Germany but she had to deny her origin since the Nazis were in power in germany during that time...User:85.176.74.244

Please translate relevant paragraphs. It would also help if there was an explanation of why her birthplace would have made any difference in Nazi attitudes. But in any case, the primary reference books giving her biography, describe her as from Vienna. A magazine article would not be enough to outweigh the the other sources. If you translate the article details, and include something about the author, it could be mentioned in the Early years section. But if it seems more of a rumor, and there's plenty of that in the entertainment world, it should be left out. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 19:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

It says "Geboren in Düsseldorf am 12. Januar 1910 als Kind eines reichen Kaufmanns und einer Fabrikantentochter, aufgewachsen im vornehmen Hamburger Stadtteil Harvestehude." ---Translated: "Born in Düsseldorf on Jan 12, 1910 as the daughter of a rich businessman and ... [I do not know the English word], raised in the noble Hamburg district of Harvestehude." The article is from tagesschau.de which is the website of the biggest news show on German television, so I assume that they have relevant sources for this information, but I will try to get the names of those sources and write them down here as soon as I get them.

Concerning the denial of her real birthplace: she had to deny her real origin when she was in hollywood, probably because it would have been bad for her career to be seen as a german while the nazis were in power in germany —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.176.92.153 (talk) 22:48, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Today I got an answer from the author of the tagesschau.de article, he said that e.g. MGM faked the birhtplace in "The MGM Stock Company: the Golden Era" and that indeed she was born in Düsseldorf, Germany, as she herself has already told reporters in many interviews. I googled the Internet and I found more sources:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2845151.stm (stating that she is German)

http://news.scotsman.com/entertainment/Interview-Luise-Rainer--39God.5954875.jp (stating she was born in Dusseldorf)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/6398728/Actress-Luise-Rainer-on-the-glamour-and-grit-of-Hollywoods-golden-era.html (stating that she was born in Dusseldorf)

BBC and the Daily Telegraph are two reliable British sources. There are so many sources saying she was born in Düsseldorf, including herself. The other sources listed, that say she was born in Vienna, do not sound very reliable to me thus for me the matter is clear, I changed the birthplace in the Wikipedia article 85.176.67.104 (talk) 18:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

There's no question that her birthplace has been published as being in two different places, and that both her parents were German. The rationale you gave above is possible. As you got the theory—of why two places are known—from a journalist, it's only his opinion. Personally, I doubt if too many people would care either way, since they were bordering countries and allies in WWII. But since you have printed cites, it makes sense to present the uncertain birthplace within the text, so readers will understand the apparent error. The "theory" is not cited, even if interesting. It doesn't make Wikipedia very reliable when it bounces around with facts that are printed in numerous places.

As mentioned above, most of the leading film reference books show her as being born in Vienna. If you can find some more verifiable details that can be given, you can add them to the article. But as it is, I hope you agree it only makes sense to give her most-cited, and verifiable place of birth (i.e. Turner Classic Movies,) as Vienna, and include your other cites in the body. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 20:27, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Most-cited does not automatically mean true. But anyway, concerning Luise Rainer, I am the opinion that the most-cited birthplace is Düsseldorf, not Vienna. There is a big chance that those film reference books all copied from what the MGM published. The article from the Daily Telegraph that I mentioned is based on an interview with her. And who would know best where she was born if not Luise herself? 85.176.94.212 (talk) 21:22, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Turner Classic Movies is broadcasting Luise Rainer films to celebrate her birthday. In his introduction to The Emperor's Candlesticks, Robert Osbourne just said Rainer was born in Dusseldorf, Germany. --JamesAM (talk) 07:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, it looks like a mystery. The Turner Classic Movies bio on her has Vienna. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 07:41, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I looked up ancestry.com and Luise is on a Passenger list in 1935. Here are the details:

Name: Luise Rainer. Age: 25. Female. Single. Occupation: Actress. Race or People: Hebrew. Place of Birth: Germany, Dusseldorf. Immigration Visa Number: Q562. Issued at: Vienna. Date Issued: December 21st 1934. Last Permanent Address: Austria, Vienna. Name Of Ship: Ile De France. Sailing From: Le Havre, France. When: January 9th 1935. Sailing To: New York. Arriving: January 15th 1935.

Luise would have celebrated her 25th birthday onboard the ship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaron2001 (talk • contribs) 12:26, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

But you haven't added a source with it. Wildhartlivie (talk) 12:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I already said I looked it up on ancestry.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaron2001 (talk • contribs) 17:30, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Please read WP:CITE and WP:REF for information on how something is sourced here. Stating it on the edit summary is not adding a source. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:04, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

How many older?

How many Academy Award winners of the past were older than Rainer is now? --RandomOrca2 19:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Only George Burns, who died at the age of 100 in 1996. John Mills died at the age Rainer is now (97) in 2005. This does not include Honary Academy Award winners (Bob Hope, Lillian Gish) nor winners outside the acting department. 84.87.228.147 11:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Dates and ages

I changed some. In the sentence "She began studying acting with Max Reinhardt, and by the time she was 16, there was already...", I changed 16 to 18, because in the interview article How Hollywood 'Discovered' Its Latest Foreign Star (referenced) it was mentioned she began acting at age 16, followed by the sentence: "Two years later Luise enrolled in the Max Reinhardt Theater in Vienna." Therefore, I changed the 16 to 18.

In the same 1935 article, it was said Rainer was discovered "a year ago". Because of that, I changed the "1935" in "She later appeared in several German language films before being discovered in 1935" to 1934.Moviefan (talk) 00:12, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistent Dates

"Disenchanted with Hollywood, where she later said it was impossible to have an intellectual conversation,[1] she moved to New York City in 1940 to live with her husband, playwright Clifford Odets, whom she had married in 1937. Rainer and Odets were divorced three years later. Rainer had never made it a secret that she felt terrible as Odets' wife, and exclaimed in a 1938 interview: "All the acting I've done on the stage or screen has been nothing compared to the acting I did in New York, when I tried to make everyone think I was happy – and my heart was breaking."[38] She filed for divorce in mid-1938, but proceedings were delayed "to next October" when Odets fled to England.[39] The divorce was finalized on May 14, 1940."

Does anyone else see how these dates (1937, 1940, 1943) can't possibly match up? Which are correct?

Also, regarding this: "Rainer had become an American citizen in the 1940s, but they had lived in the UK and Switzerland[36] for most of their marriage." Who is this ("they") talking about? --69.251.209.87 (talk) 18:34, 4 October 2010 (UTC)