Talk:Eye color

Fixed

Fixed a few things, especially concerning whoever made up that crap about green eyes. Also, fixed "light blue eyes" to be called gray as dark, since clearly the opaque over the translucent makes the blue eyes appear gray, though they are really blue. Also fixed the definition of the word "hazel." Few people sadly seem to do research on this eye color with the general masses confusing it for just combination eyes. Also added the unusual eye color section.

EDIT: Though oddly enough someone likes the change some information back to the previous false facts.

Whoever wrote the previous two entries: Please sign with four tildes (~) so that we know who you are. Also, the above two entries are difficult to understand due to grammar problems. Could you clarify? Or perhaps get the assistance of a native speaker to help you articulate your ideas. That way, we can have a meaningful discussion. InFairness 02:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Color changes?

While color change in young children is mentioned, I am aware of several people in my family whom have eye color changes relatively constantly throughout their lives. Is there a name for this?

Expand, please

I've started this article though I'm not an expert on this topic. It seems to me like a lot could be written about the geographic distribution of eye colors around the world. So those more knowledgeable about this should expand it! —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 01:34, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

Is there information available on demographics, meaning what percentage of people have each pigment, which is rarest, etc?

What about people with Violet eyes (like Elizabeth Taylor)? Or people with those almost white, blue color eyes (if violet and blue-white are not just somehow blue variations)? And if Grey eyes are different from Blue eyes, why not mention them as thier own eye color? Also what more about susceptibility to light damage in brown-, green-, and other than blue-eyed people? Include detailed images of violet, hazel, grey, and white-blue eyes, if possible.

Oi, yo, can you give more info on them there grey eyes with brown ring and black centre please (this is what my eyes look like)

I know people with golden/yellow eyes as well. Well, Wikipedia does give near-infinite chances to expand an article.Bjones 23:27, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Also

Two brown eyed parents can have a blue eyed child because brown is dominant. Therefore, both parents could have a "hidden" blue gene. If the child got both of these, they would possibly have blue eyes, I believe. Since blue is recessive, I am not sure if two blue eyed parents could have a brown eyed child.68.160.190.21 21:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

My parents both have blue eyes, but mine are hazel (green with brown in the center.) I suspect eyes do not follow simple Mendelian genomics.

No, I asked my science teacher about eyes when we studied Mendel and he said eye color was controlled by around a dozen different genes!12.17.189.77 02:54, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Green eyes

Green eyes are most often found in people of Celtic, Irish and Aryan descent.

1. "Celtic descent" includes "Irish".
2. Aryan sounds a bit vague. It would be better if we had some statistics about the regions where the green eyes are more common Bogdan | Talk 09:38, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
3. Doesn't Aryan refer to Iranian peoples and not Germanic?

• It may now, but the phrase was created by the Nazis.

---

That is not true. The word "Aryan" has been around for hundreds of years long before Nazis came to existence. It was used to describe people who speak Indo-European language or the people from North India and Iran. Nazis just invented their own meaning of this word.--Tsnatt4 03:13, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

---

From my understanding, green eyes also occur among Slavic peoples of all three regions: West Slavs, East Slavs, and South Slavs. User:Le Anh-Huy 21:38h, 14 Feb 2006

Confusing Grey Eyes Sentence

"Very light blue eyes can be confused with grey eyes". This doesn't make much sense. This should either be rephrased as "Very light blue eyes may give the impression of being grey," or "Grey eyes are often confused with very light blue eyes." Whichever the sentence is intended to mean.

Be bold. mikka (t) 23:40, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Michael Ealy

"Although extremely rare, people of African descent may have blue eyes, such as Michael Ealy."

This statement is misleading since it implies that blue eyes are found naturally in black populations, which they aren't. A "black" person may have blue eyes only if both of their parents have white ancestors who both carry genes for blue eyes, which is obviously the case with Michael Ealy whose blue eyes certainly didn't come from his black ancestors. This should be corrected or removed. --Jugbo

I just took the liberty of removing this statement myself. --Jugbo

how about Vannessa Williams???

See the above comments. — TheKMan^talk 22:39, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, I saw Eastern Asian (with no white ancestry) can have Blue eyes (mostly associated with genetically dieaseas. Plus my mom have hazel eyes with a green rim and her ancestors are all Chinese! Like there is no way I have any white blood in her.... How can u explain that?

Well, as far I know It's been suggests that cultural exchanges happened between western populations and Chinese populations at a very early date (2nd and 1st millenium BC) as the result of the migrations of Indo-European people far to the East, and perhaps the best example are the Tarim mummies, a series of Caucasoid mummies which have been excavated in the Tarim Basin (Eastern Central Asia, today the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the People's Republic of China).

But that's not all, Pliny reports a curious description of the Seres (in the territories of northwestern China) made by an embassy from Taprobane to Emperor Claudius, saying that they "exceeded the ordinary human height, had flaxen hair, and blue eyes.

Maybe just the idea of an isolated human genome in China is just wrong, but anyway we can't just diminish the idea of an independent mutation on the many genes involved. Jfreyre

The word "white" is a racial slur and should be replaced with caucasion!

"How about Vanessa Williams???"

It's the same situation. Do indeed "see the above comments". This link to an article by a geneticist says the same that I said above: [1]; but isn't Vanessa's white ancestry obvious, anyway: [2], [3], [4], [5]. "White" is not a "racial slur", but a colloquially and commonly used racial term. "Cracker" and "whitey" are racial slurs, and "caucasian" is inaccurate because it specifically refers to the people of the Caucasus mountains (although this term is still widely used as well, as exemplified in the geneticist's article). To the person with the Chinese mother and who has seen a blue-eyed East Asian "with no white ancestry", you're personal experiences are not compelling on their own. I've heard nothing of "hazel eyes with a green rim" appearing in unmixed East Asians, and the other posters here sound like they haven't either, so a reference from you would have been good. See the link I've already posted here about how "you need to have caucasian relatives on both sides" to have blue eyes (or a case of OA or, less likely, a new genetic mutation). You may have some hidden ancestry from the West (of China or Eurasia), or your mother may be extroardinarily unusual. --Jugbo 23:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

(I am the guy whose mom have hazel eyes) well, she said people in her dad village is like that too.... its in guandong province..... quite poor when my grandpa went to Hong Kong...... I have medium brown eyes and dark brown (not even black, some of them even blonde) hair and really really pale skin..... A lot of East Asian born as brunette too......

According to the Mongoloid article: "The vast majority [of mongoloids]...have straight black hair, dark brown eyes, and relatively flat and broad faces. Dark brown hair and lighter brown or even grey eyes do occur, but less so. This is especially true among "Southern", or non-prototype Asians;" and that "Very thick, wavy hair is common in North China and in Korea; and the occurrence of grey eyes and even blue eyes has been seen among a few Central Asians and Mongolians." I'll confess I've never read this before, and it appears I'm ignorant of this occurence in these populations (except of the occurence of caucasoid populations in Central Asia; see Seres and Tocharian). Could you perhaps post a picture of a light-eyed (gray/blue) or light-haired ("blond") mongoloid? --Jugbo 00:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

A lot of East Asian (mostly in Northeast part, such as Korea and Japan)have brown hair with brown eyes. I have to confess too that I only heard of full Asian have blue eyes but i never seen a real one. But I did saw a full Asian with natural platium blond hair (the sad part is that guy have genetic problems... cant remember his eye color, is like grayish but im not dare to straight).

I recently sent a question to "Ask a Geneticist" on the site "Understanding Genetics" [6], asking about the occurence of non-brown/black eyes and hair in non-caucasoid populations. I'll post a link to their answer when they respond (those interested could watch the page, too). --Jugbo 00:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

hello, any answer from them?????

No, not yet. I'll post it when they respond. --Jugbo 23:02, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I've received an email from these people, but it doesn't seem that they'll include my question on their site, so I'll post their answer here:

Q: Do light-colored eyes (i.e. hazel, green, gray, blue or violet;

not simply "light-brown") or light-colored hair (not due to UV damage) occur

naturally in non-caucasoid populations? I've heard allegations of "blond",

gray/blue-eyed Chinese (in the south, not west); of green-eyed Melanesians;

and of blue-eyed and green-eyed "Africans" (I assume sub-Saharan). I know

that some Australo-Papuans have yellow(ish) hair and that albinism can cause

yellow hair in African negroids; but aside from these occurences, I've heard

of no others (especially relating to eye color). Are there any other

occurences like these? Thank you.

A: I have heard of some but they are pretty rare, especially when you rule

out albinism. I have seen rare mutations in the MC1R gene in African

populations that lead to red hair (see

<http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=44> for a discussion of MC1R and

red hair). I have also heard that when sailors first arrived at Easter

Island, there were redheads there. And that in New Zealand, there were

light haired, blue eyed people. However, these last two folks aren't around

anymore and we don't know if they somehow came there from Europe originally.

I have heard of light haired Chinese but I have always heard that this is

due to Caucasians who were there centuries ago. It does seem that light

hair, eyes, and skin originated in Northern Europe and failed to originate

elsewhere. We talk about why that might be in our answer at

<http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=160>

Perhaps I was vague with my question and the respondent thought that I wanted more stories about the subject. Although they mention the "rare mutations" that account for red hair in "African" populations and the provided links elaborate on the genetic causes of light hair and light eyes, this person didn't really answer the (intended) question, which was about whether or not these traits actually do occur in these populations independently rather than about what people have heard. So we hear from this person that they "have heard" of the occurence of light hair and eyes in China and that it's due to a "Caucasian" presence, so that the features, ultimately, aren't indigenous to that region. Although it's mainly hearsay, this response is directly from a geneticist on the issue. --Jugbo 18:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Worldwide percentages?

Is there any estimate of what the worldwide breakdown of eye color is? --Scaryice 10:08, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Photo

This article could really use a better photo of hazel eyes. The one that is there is very overexposed, and it's hard to compare the color with the other photos.--Srleffler 22:09, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I will be bold and remove it. Benstrum has kept putting it back, but I agree it is a very poor photo. I think a better description of the photo would be "light brown" eyes. If anyone else agrees, say so here. InFairness 07:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Green/Grey

I always thought I had green eyes, but the sentence "A yellow-, amber- or copper-colored ring is commonly seen around the pupil" makes me think I may have grey eyes. They really do look green thoug; do these rings occur in green eyes or is it just grey? Citizen Premier 00:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Er nevermind, I think I have blue-green eyes... but how many different colors can get the rings? Citizen Premier 00:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

The "grey eye" with a ring is not very clear--it seems to be more of a greenish-grey color to me. I have seen the ring in all different eye colors. My mother had a bright, thin, yellow wire-like ring around her pupils, but otherwise "black" (very dark brown) eyes. There is a much better picture under the article iris (anatomy). I will use that as an example of one (incorrect) use of the term "hazel".

Genetic link

Having read the article at the former link given for the statement that "In [European] population, brown eyes are genetically linked to brown or black hair", I have decided to remove it because the statement was a vacuous truth. Besides, having brown hair does not 'necessarily' mean that one must have brown eyes in 'any' population. For example, I have blue-green eyes and brown hair. I am European descent.

genetics much complexer

I was reading in forensic stuff some time ago, that desprite all developments, it was still impossible to determine the color of the eyes based on genes, because the large number of genes involved. --KimvdLinde 15:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Black eye image

The black eye image was such that it was unclewar whether this was due to real black eyes or that the eyes were brown but only looked black due to the poor light condition in the image. A image indicating such a specific thing should be 100% clear and not raise doubt KimvdLinde 22:56, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

"Hazel" eye

The pic of the "hazel" eye has been removed because it is a brown eye. Could we please get a real picture of a 'light brown' eye here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by InFairness (talk • contribs)

What color is this?

I wonder if we could get a consensus on what color eye this pic is. It seems to me to be a sort of greenish-gray, with the infamous copper/brown ring. I can see how it could be seen as "hazel" (light brown), because it seems to be greenish-almost-bordering-on-brown. I can also see how some might see it as an example of the "wrong" use of the term "hazel"--transitioning from green to brown. I think it would be nice to use in the article, it is such a nice pic.

I think this is a typical exapmle of a grey eye, read the description, they often have those rings. The argument that it is such a nice picture is not sufficient to add it to a article. However, if it does a better job in showing a typical grey eye, than discussion on replacing it could be in order.

Actually, you are incorrect. Grey eyes may have brown/copper/yellow rings. Nowhere does it say (and it would be incorrect if it did) that rings were typical. I understand that you are not a native speaker of English, and I want to clarify my comment above. I did not make, nor would I make, the argument that being a nice pic is the only or even primary reason to place a picture. As you yourself have pointed out, there have been a number of unhelpful pictures placed in the article, and it would be nice to have pictures that are helpful in demonstrating the various colors. The pics for blue, blue-green, and green work nicely. We haven't had one for hazel or brown (at least that was legal). Still, I think the pic is rather a greenish-grey. As for the signing, it was an oversight.InFairness 08:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Purple Eyes

I deleted this part because it appears to be some really cheesy legend spreading. Also, there is absolutely no documented evidence to show any sign of this and the one source I found (which was from the author of a fanfiction story) suggested that the "Alexandria's Genesis" genetic disorder is the result of alien life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.100.102 (talk • contribs)

This is untrue. Elizabeth Taylor had puple eyes (more properly called violet), although the condition is extremely rare. Someone with a significant amount of knowledge on the subject (which a I don't have) should recreate that section, if only as a sidenote.

removed images

I had a look at the removed images, and could not detect any maniulation. What is wrong with the image tag? --KimvdLinde 16:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

---

From my understanding, green eyes also occur among Slavic peoples of all three regions: West Slavs, East Slavs, and South Slavs. Among Asians, it seems only Central Asians and possibly Mongolians could have naturally occurring blue eyes, as if it were a continuum from Caucasians. My grandmother was of East Asian descent (Vietnamese), and had brown eyes with blue rims, and I have seen several exmaples of Asians with "hazel eyes with a green rim". I am also of East Asian descent, but I have brown eyes. Does this mean my grandmother had Altaic or Central Asian origins? User:Le Anh-Huy 21:48h, 14 Feb 2006

no le, The vast majority of the world's people have dark eyes, ranging from brown to nearly black. Light brown eyes are also present in many people, but to a lesser extent. Most of the original inhabitants of Africa, Asia, and the Americas have brown eyes.