Talk:Magnus Barefoot

Links for years

Rettetast has removed links for years, I've restored them. I suppose this isn't a very big issue, but I can't see the reasoning behind removing them. Having years linked is the common thing. Rettetast apparently thinks they're disturbing, I can't really see that that's the case. Rettetast seems to think he has support for his actions in Wikipedia guidelines, I can't really see that that's the case either. The guidelines say "Stand alone years do not need to be linked but some users prefer it". Well, the users who have established this article, and practically all the other articles about medieval kings, preferred it. Maybe a reader wants to know which other people were born in 1073, for example. If you don't prefer it, just overlook the blue text. How annoying can the blue color be, anyway?--Barend (talk) 12:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

February 2011

I have reverted recent changes to help bring article into line with the published historical assessments. Sorry if this has caused any offence - not intended. Lopthaena (talk) 11:53, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The changes you made (that was removed without explanation[1] and reverted back by you) seem perfectly fine with me. I'll keep an eye on this article and make sure that it isn't removed again without a discussion. (I added a new heading to separate this from previous discussions). Finn Rindahl (talk) 13:57, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I have tried to make changes in line with published scholarship, and hope I have avoided offence. However, names in modern Norwegian need Norse equivalents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lopthaena (talk • contribs) 22:32, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm having a difficulties interpreting the recent edit history of the article, but it seems to me that both Lopthaena and the unregistred user editing from ip have now been improving the article, and not reverting each other. If there are any remaining disagreements, please direct them here. Thanks. Finn Rindahl (talk) 12:13, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems that the conflict is about the place of death (not burial) and is ultimately about the published sholarship versus local designations. I wonder if the solution would be a separate section on the modern interest and re-enactments? this would undoubtedly increase the value of the article. I am not aware of a source (annals) for a battle on the north coast, hence deletion, but am willing to be proved wrong. Reluctant to work on other articles, as this one has inadvertantly caused offence. Lopthaena (talk) 16:58, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

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Here is a map of the Ulaid lands in 1014: http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/00/4/1/9/6979264430505390.gif

They were like this when Magnus landed, his death in Portrush is well known and often repeated. It is known, from an archaeological dig, that a battle was fought in the Portrush site between invaders and local warbands at this time, much was found from the era.

The Magnus Barefoot saga indicate he was in the north, his ally (the King of Munster) had returned to Connaught: "King Magnus was in winter (A.D. 1102) up in Connaught with King Myrkjartan, but set men to defend the country he had taken. Towards spring both kings went westward with their army all the way to Ulster, where they had many battles, subdued the country, and had conquered the greatest part of Ulster when Myrkjartan returned home to Connaught."

Magnus now sent for supplies from his ally (in Connaught): "He lay at Ulster ready for sea with his whole fleet. As they thought they needed cattle for ship-provision, King Magnus sent a message to King Myrkjartan, telling him to send some cattle for slaughter;"

So your contention of "Downpatrick" being the "scholarly consensus" is not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.229.119 (talk) 17:51, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, someone has removed the mention of Magnus's conquests in Ireland and left the article with simply the information that "In 1103 they apparently made a joint assault in the north, in the Armagh area, where Muirchertach's forces were routed. Magnus, probably then in the vicinity of the Quoile estuary near Downpatrick, decided to return to Norway."

This is wrong, the saga says: "King Magnus sailed to Ireland with his fleet, and plundered there. King Myrkjartan came to his assistance, and they conquered a great part of the country, both Dublin and Dyflinnarskire (Dublin shire)."

If you want to help as you say, then do not delete information or revert additions without some form of discussion. Your assertion that the sources back your contention up are not valid. They simply state as I have quoted above. This does not show that Downpatrick is any more likely than Portrush. Take into consideration the numerous artifacts found from the era in the Portrush site, and the common knowledge of a great battle being fought there between invaders and Irish warbands. 87.114.229.119 (talk) 17:34, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad to see that there is communication at this talk page, hopefully disagrrements can be sorted out here, and future reverts and rereverts avvoided. Now, the whole article suffers from depending to heavily on the saga-accounts. The Norse sagas are late, and can't be used as accurate sources for anything but what kind of traditions existed in Iceland/Norway at a certain time. Whenever something is quoted from Snorre, it need to be made explicit that this is an account from the sagatradition, not (necessarily) something that modern mediaevalists hold to be historical accurate. The map you pointed to 87.114 is better linked here, it's a map made by a Wikipedian based on a map from wesleyjohnston.com - hardly a reliable source for the actual Ulaid lands in 1014. However, I agree that narrowing "Ulastir" to the easternmost parts of of present Antrim and Down is probably limiting the area too much.

What we should do now, IMO, is to present all views on where his deathplace may have been as neutrally as possibly, with sources and with accurate descriptions of the sources. I would like to require both of you to use this talk page for discussions prior to making new changes to the article. (If you persist reverting each others additions I will most probably have to request that this page is semi-protected for a while, but I really hope we don't have to resort to that). Finn Rindahl (talk) 18:20, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Lopthaena is no longer involved.Lopthaena (talk) 19:56, 9 February 2011 (UTC)