Talk:Invictus

I'm surprised there is no reference to:

Out of the night that dazzles me, Bright as the sun from pole to pole, I thank the God I know to be For Christ the conqueror of my soul. .... I have no fear, though strait the gate, He cleared from punishment the scroll. Christ is the Master of my fate, Christ is the Captain of my soul.

This reply as well.

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I clearly remember Colin Powell reading Invictus to the American public on a national network. I remember it because he omitted the second stanza. I can't seem to remember when, though. Was it first Gulf War, post-9/11, or when? I've been looking for another source that references the reading, but I guess it wasn't considered terribly noteworthy at the time. Does anyone else remember this? SWAdair | Talk 11:28, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Shouldn't the poem itself be on wikisource?

• Especially where poetry is concerned, short items are often included directly in the article. See Jabberwocky for another example. Long poems are best not included in the article, but short ones are fine, IMHO. SWAdair | Talk 03:46, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• The poem is already on wikisource. Should one of the redundancies be deleted? I think its better if the original text is on wikisource because that is what that database is for, IMHO. --Zippanova 05:26, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
• Wiki is not paper. Right now I don't know of any way to keep the text of the poem on wikisource and make it display on this page. Anything that makes the text of the poem not display on this page will mean that the poem cannot be read on this page, and as such is inadequate. -- Smerdis of Tlön

Please don't ditch this page as I've just linked to it. Shouldn't the poem be in verses, as well, for clarity? Cheers!

It is quoted in Casablanca. It is when Rick Blaine and Captain Renault are in Rick's office, I think to get money for some guy who won 20k francs. Rick takes a shot at Renault at he says something like "In Casablanca I am master of my fate, captain of my..." and then someone walks in and cuts him off. Rick says something like, "You were saying."

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It was also used in the movie 'There was a crooked man' starring Kirk Douglas & Henry Fonda it's while the new mess for the prisoners is being inaugrated by the lady chief guest.

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Source or Remove

This is becoming my new trademark stance on talkpages, "Source or Remove", I feel like such a reference-Nazi. Anyways, In the United States, this poem has become popular among paratroopers, many of whom commit it to memory to give them emotional support should they become a prisoner of war., source or remove. Sherurcij ^{(talk) (bounties)} 05:13, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

The poem is also quoted in "The House at Sugar Beach" by Helene Cooper BWHirsch (talk) 05:04, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The Warrior Elite: The Making of Class 223 by Dick Couch says that at least on one occasion it was memorized and read aloud at graduation by Navy SEALS. The poem is fairly popular in the military.

question

What are the lines that appeal the sense of sight?

I believe it means top to bottom, just as the poles are the "top" and "bottom" of the earth. Bofa

question???

I hardly read poetry so can any one tell me what does this poem really means??

He is saying that he is in control of himself, and he isn't going to blame anyone else for his misfortunes. AdamBiswanger1_{R.I.P. Steve Irwin} 13:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

It could also mean simply that he will not allow himself to be beat.-Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 15:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

May I direct you to a really good article at CNN.com? It discusses Henleys motives to write this (among other things) CNN Archive

I know "consumption of the spine" (consumption being tuberculosis) was old slang for syphilis, so i wonder if that is what "tuberculosis of the leg" is really referring to, since it before antibiotics it was often passed down to children, hence why it affected him so young.

deleted reference to "master of my fate"

The previous version read "Through this poem, Henley gave the world the familiar phrases "my head is bloody, but unbowed" and 'I am the master of my fate'." I took out the reference to "I am the master of my fate," since it is too bold a claim to say that Henley "gave the world" this phrase. More likely the phrase comes from the first act of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, where Cassius tells Brutus that "Men at sometime, are Masters of their Fates". Henley may be referring to this, but he certainly did not coin the phrase. But in Henley's defense, I wouldn't doubt that Shakespeare cribbed this from a Latin playwright.

Full text of poem

Wikipedia is not meant for source text; that's what Wikisource is for. I've removed the full text from this article and left an easy to find Wikisource box. :) --Midnightdreary 22:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm surprised to see how quickly the full text reappeared. I'm assuming it's because an editor pored over WP:L&P and made a conscious, well thought-out judgment call based on it. --Midnightdreary 03:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Aha! I have just now replied to a very interesting query about this text (see s:User_talk:Jayvdb#Capitalization in Henley's "Invictus") and was just about to also recommend here that the text be removed, as full texts are rarely well maintained on Wikipedia, as opposed to Wikisource where we gradually move towards pagescans so there can be no further doubt or room for "improvement". John Vandenberg ^(chat) 04:45, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Timothy McVeigh

Is it relevant that Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh used a quote from this poem as his 'last words' before his execution? Jonathantreichel (talk) 02:37, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe when Henley mentions he is the master of his fate he could be referring to suicide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.112.232.22 (talk) 15:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Conquered

Anout the similar poem mentioned above "It is fitting that a virtually unknown poet of the early 20th century, Dorothea Day, should write the counterpoint to Henley’s poem. “Invictus” means “unconquerable”. Dorothea Day’s poem is called “Conquered.” 78.147.202.148 (talk) 12:14, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

It is my understanding that Day's poem is called "My Captain" [1] I had hoped her poem would be mentioned in the article as the answer to "Invictus" instead of the one by the Mormon. But I will not steal your thunder, 78.147.202.148. I will let you edit the article. It probably would be best to mention both responses, rather than replace the reference to Whitney with Day's Hccrle (talk) 14:16, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Influence?

I the the "Influence" section of the article is pretty shallow. According to what is written, the poem's influence is limited to three movie references, a music tour, and one world leader. Probably the only really significant point there is Nelson Mandela. What I'm trying to say is, the poem has definitely had a larger influence than what is listed here, so it should be either greatly expanded, or be renamed something like "influence on popular culture".

Vice Admiral Stockdale once gave a speech about his time in Vietnam as a POW. One of his comrades, Dave Hatcher, snuck him a secret note after Stockdale had attempted suicide in order to avoid being used for propaganda. The note, which Stockdale read in the dark of his cell after years of confinement read:

It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.

I think that is somewhat more significant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swimg43 (talk • contribs) 23:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I think that the title 'Influences" makes it sound as if its going to concern its influence on other art and poetry, not a list of references. I think that it should be renamed something like "Influence on Popular Culture" or be reworked to show its influence.