Talk:Boston University

Pages for schools/colleges within BU

Some of the colleges and schools (listed in the "Colleges and Schools" category) should really have their own pages. Particularly CGS and MET (2 programs within MET have their own pages, but MET itself does not). These are important parts of BU and have notable alumni. Hbomberman (talk) 21:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Methodist affiliation

I'm unable to find any sources stating that Boston University has a current affiliation with the Methodist church, I can find many mentions of it historically, but several that state it isn't the case currently. Could I get some clarification? Falcon8765 ^(TALK) 00:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Sure, please check the ones that are in the article now. They are current sources. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 02:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Anupam, every link you used is an outdated source. I will detail why the links are outdated below. The sources I use are the most up to date, from the government and, school itself. bowjangles

Your links.

3.) Separated brethren: a review of Protestant, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox & other religions in the United States". Our Sunday Visitor.These do not state the proposition that BU is affiliated with the Methodist church whatsoever. It merely suggests that there is a Methodist seminary in Boston, and makes no mention of the University itself. Additionally, the author fails to state any supporting evidence to back up her proposition.

4.) "Boston University". International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities (IAMSCU).I have several complaints about this source. First, it is outdated. Second, the source does not state the proposition that BU in its entirely is methodist school. It only states that historically the school of theology within the school is associated with the methodist church. It does not go to state the entire university is affiliated with the church.

5.) "United Methodist schools score high in rankings" This source is outdated from 2004. This source also does not state that BU is at all affiliated with the Methodist church. There is a major difference between being related and being affiliated with which I believe is the source of your confusion. Related means having some sort of past contact or past interaction with(Which is true in the case of BU, originally founded as a methodist seminary but this is no longer the case). Affiliation means that the school administration has officially received permission from the church to establish a school based on the church's teachings. BU does not fall under the category of being affiliated with the church.

6.) "Cambridge University Student Union International 2003-2004" The author makes an assertion with no support for his assertion what so ever. He makes a statement, and does not cite any sources as to where he obtained the information to make his opinion. This can not be used as a verifiable source.

My Links.

3.) http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=boston+uni&s=all&id=164988#general This is the official department of education report compiled by the United States government about Universities. Universities are required to submit information to the government for the government to compile their report. The government report clearly states that the University's religious affiliation is not applicable. Meaning that BU has no religious affiliation. Additionally, this source is unbiased and should be held in higher regard than the sources you state from methodist books and methodist websites.

4.) http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/boston-university This website is run by QS a nonprofit that ranks universities from around the world. The website states that BU is non-sectarian which means having no religious affiliation. This report was released in 2011 which is more recent than any of the links you give for support.

Please gain consensus for changing the version of the article from where it stands right now. The sources mentioned in the article are not outdated and delineate the fact that Boston University is affiliated with The United Methodist Church. For example, the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities lists Boston University as being affiliated with The United Methodist Church (see link). Moreover, the institution even has a School of Theology which is used to train ministers in The United Methodist Church. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 02:01, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Wait, who says the version you listed has a consensus? The sources you listed are biased and do not speak for the university in general. All of the sources you cite are related to the Methodist church. The sources where I get my information are unbiased,third-party independent sources. Additionally, please look at my explanation of "related to" and affiliated with. There is a difference. I think this is the source of your confusion. As a student at the University, I know the school has a school of theology. The school of theology is a college within the larger university. The school of theology does not speak for the university as a whole. I hope this helps. Yours truly, bowjangles^Talk 07:01, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello User:Bowjangles, I would foremost suggest that you take heed to the warning given on your talk page and first discuss your proposed changes to the article, rather than removing information from the article. You have already been reverted by another user as well. I found an source from Boston University itself, acknowledging its affiliation to The United Methodist Church:

Boston University has been historically affiliated with the United Methodist Church since 1839 when the Newbury Biblical Institute, the first Methodist seminary in the United States was established in Newbury, Vermont.

As such, Boston University states that it is affiliated with The United Methodist Church, which in turn acknowledges the same affiliation. This solves any concerns you might have had, although the previous sources adequately buttressed the statement. Moreover, the affiliation is also recognized by the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities, as well as by several reliable tertiary sources, such as The Cambridge University Student Union International. I would also like to point out that the Education Encyclopedia states:

Although most are liberal arts colleges with enrollments between 800 and 2,000 students, church-related higher education also includes large research universities (Boston University, Notre Dame, for example), medical colleges, professional schools, two-year colleges, theological seminaries, and Bible colleges. Many religiously affiliated colleges regularly are highly ranked in various "best colleges" ratings in the United States.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation in this matter. With regards, Anupam^Talk 20:26, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello User:Anupam, I would suggest that you stop threatening people. I have discussed changes to the article and you have been unwilling to admit your mistakes. It seems you are highly biased towards including this incorrect information about the school. Why? What reason do you have for including false information about the school? To settle this dispute I emailed the school and received an answer from the admissions department. I suggest you do the same as well. "BU began its existence as a Methodist seminary, and Marsh Chapel sits at the heart of campus, but these days we do not have an official religious affiliation. For more information about religious life at BU, I encourage you to visit the Religious Life section of our Admissions website." Bode Wilson, Admissions Coordinator, Boston University Undergraduate Admissions Phone: (617) 353-2300. Admissions@bu.edu. Anupam the cites you list speak only of the school of theology not the entire university. Why are you unwilling to accept that you are wrong? :Thanks for your understanding and cooperation in this matter. With regards, bowjangles^Talk 13:26, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Bowjangles you have not been threatened. You have been warned. If you continue edit warring against multiple editors you will be blocked. We operate on consensus, not truth. You have not persuaded any editors to your position. I invite you to keep discussing the merits of your issue and stop edit warring. – Lionel ^(talk) 20:10, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree with User:Lionelt's comments here - you must gain consensus to change the longstanding version of the article. Also, clandestinely removing relevant talk page banners is considered vandalism. Wikipedia operates according to the principle of WP:V: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true." At this time, several reliable sources, including the websites for Boston University and The United Methodist Church acknowledge the affiliation. Today, I found another link from the Office of the Provost at Boston University acknowledging its affiliation with The United Methodist Church:

The University Scholar/Teacher of the Year Award, established by the General Board of Higher Education and Ministry of The United Methodist Church, is conferred at colleges and universities historically affiliated with it.

And no, I am not wrong. This website, along with the previous website from BU that I provided is not from the seminary but is from the university in general. In fact, the link is coming from the Media Relations section of the general website. The supposed email you provided from the admissions office clerk does not qualify here as a published reliable source, while the information provided by the Media Relations as well as the Office of the Provost, does. This information is further corroborated by the fact that The United Methodist Church also acknowledges the affiliation, as does the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities. Thanks for your understanding, Anupam^Talk 21:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree that editors should not change long-standing articles without consensus. However, I would not be so quick to dismiss Bowjangles' point just because his methods are questionable. The references you listed cite an historical affiliation which is not the same as a current affiliation. It has already been stipulated by all editors on this page that there is an historical connection between the Methodist Church and BU. I think we should open up a general discussion on the current status of the relationship between the Methodist Church and BU and proceed from there. Dave (djkernen)|Talk to me|Please help! 16:40, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Dear User:Djkernen, the user in question removed the statement and references from the article completely, which was unacceptable. I would be open to a compromise by using BU's wording and inserting the word "historically" before the word "affiliated" in the article. What do you think of this idea? I look forward to your comments. With regards, Anupam^Talk 18:04, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, after emailing The United Methodist Church, I received the following response:

Hello Anupam, Thank you for writing. Boston University is a United Methodist-related school. See the list for the Northeastern region on the General Board of Higher Education and Ministry website: http://www.gbhem.org/site/c.lsKSL3POLvF/b.5392245/k.9EB1/Schools_by_Region.htm

When one clicks on the reference, "Boston University" is listed as a "Four Year Institution" that is affiliated with The United Methodist Church. I hope this helps, Anupam^Talk 16:33, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

This source [2] demonstrates the Methodist affiliation and goes so far as to name the current president as a contact on p. 9.– Lionel ^(talk) 07:44, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Lionelt. After reading you source that you recently upload does not support the proposition you state, "Boston University is listed as a Four Year Institution that is affiliated with The United Methodist Church". The link you cited only states that the school of theology at Boston University is affiliated with the United Methodist Church. See my previous posts where I explain the difference between the school of theology which is only a small college within the larger University. The University in general retains no religious affiliation. You can not support your statement with the link you cite. (bowjangles)

Does BC suck or not?

A recent edit removed this paragraph:

Additionally, in the "unofficial" version of the song, often sung by students, the words "Fight! Fight! Fight!" are replaced with "BC sucks!", a nod to the ice hockey rivalry between the two schools.

Do we want to put it back in? It is an interesting tidbit, if true. BU is one of my almae matres but I have never heard that version of the song. OTH I have also never attended a BU sporting event (nor any other sporting event if I could help it). Dave (djkernen)|Talk to me|Please help! 14:42, 4 November 2011 (UTC)