Talk:Lipstick lesbian

Derogatory to Bisexual Women

It can also mean a person who isn't actually lesbian but pretends to be, for various reasons such as pornography. The term can also be applied to bisexual females.

HOW DEROGATRY TO BISEXUAL WOMEN-THE PRETEND TO BE LESBoANS!

I am not entirely sure of the purpose of this comment. Do you mean to say that because the sentance which mentions bisexuality follows a mention that the term can be used to refer to non-lesbians pretending to be lesbians, it implies that bisexuals are pretending to be lesbians? I'm not sure that is the case. I note that this comment was mentioned a while ago, so I am not entirely sure I will receive a response from you, but I would like to keep discourse on this matter open if it is in fact an issue for people. --Scandal 07:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

In any case, I don't see any necessary connection between the term "lipstick lesbian" and "bisexual female". If "lipstick lesbian" means (in part) "feminine woman attracted to other feminine women", well a bisexual woman need not be feminine, and a bisexual woman need not prefer feminine women either. Of course, a bisexual woman could be "lipstick", but then she's not a "lipstick" lesbian, she's a "lipstick" bisexual. But, I don't think that's a common term. Thus, "The term can also be applied to bisexual females" is not true. --SJK 12:17, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed on that point. I just wasn't sure what the original comment was intended to mean. --Scandalous 22:52, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction

Currently (August 2006) this article is highly self-contradictory. In the opening sentence: "Lipstick lesbian is a slang term for a feminine homosexual woman who is attracted to another feminine woman, rather than a lesbian who is attracted to a more masculine woman"

Then later: "A lipstick lesbian is a homosexual (or bi-sexual) woman who exhibits feminine gender expression... ...The term applies to a multitude of women, regardless of their preferences in partners. A lipstick lesbian may be attracted to more 'butch' or masculine women or may be attracted to other femmes but is not solely attracted to feminine women."

Any sources or similar stating when the expression was first used, or how it is most widely used now, to help clear this up? --Justynb 16:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I think the statement that lipstick lesbians are mainly attracted to other feminine women is completely wrong. Not all butches like other butches, and the other way 'round applies too. Dramaleo94 (talk) 00:02, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Chapstick v.s. Lipstick

The beginning of the article says:

> A lipstick lesbian, sometimes referred to as a chapstick lesbian

I thought the two phrases were different concepts, i.e. chapstick lesbians are less feminine than lipstick lesbians.

They are. Which is why I'm removing that part of the sentence. - 85.210.146.49 16:24, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not at all clear

In the 30 years I've been a lesbian I have never once encountered the definition of Lipstick Lesbian given here. Where I'm from (and everywhere I've been) Lipstick Lesbian is simply another term for a "high femme" lesbian. These are lesbians who wears lots of makeup, mostly wears dresses and skirts, high heels, long hair (or extremely fashionable well styled shorter hair), sometimes prissy and almost always very high maintenance. They very very rarely are read as lesbians. It has no connection to her attraction to other women, butch or femme. It is a descriptor of personal style, manner of dress, wearing of said lipstick and other makeup and bears no meaning to her adherence to any kind of butch/femme dichotomy. Lipstick Lesbian is basically the opposite of Diesel Dyke (which again has nothing to do with partner choice, but is a descriptor of a "look")

The article does state

A distinction is sometimes drawn between the phrases "lipstick lesbian" and "chapstick lesbian" and the older phrases butch and femme by suggesting that the former phrases simply refer to appearance, whereas the latter imply mutual attraction of the two types. "Chapstick lesbians" are often considered soft butch.

Which I would say is the only correct part of the whole article. And even then it is flawed. I will refrain from doing any editing, as I would vote to re-write the entire thing, swapping the two definitions around (the one I describe becoming the major definition, and the major one up there now becoming the minor definition) and it would just get changed back. What's the point. 71.193.228.220 (talk) 00:54, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with some of your statements but not all. Since the article is pretty short it may make sense to simply add content to hep illustrate what high-femme is. We are writing for a worldwide audience so the term could certainly have different currency and meaning depending on the audience and the user of the term. Benjiboi 04:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Just as a general comment,

I think it's a right shame, and reflection of misogyny that also within and outside the lesbian community, that the term 'lipstick lesbian' can be used to mean a feminine lesbian, and simultaneously a performance of lesbian sex for the viewing pleasure of men as well as a heterosexual woman pretending to be gay. A right shame indeed! -Mog (14.06.09) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.150.145 (talk) 22:46, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

hold on, I added info on lipstick butch lesbian's because I am such a person.

...and now the artical might be deleted??? I really am trying to understand and do this correctly. I only added info on another type of lipstick lesbian. I am a Lipstick Butch, I am FtM, trangendered, I dress as a female, I am a lesbian. I did try to follow the rules, I may have missed something????. lipstick butch is also mentioned on the external links at http://belladonna.org/lipsticklesbian.html on the glossery page, Habitstock22 (talk) 10:29, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

improvement of Wiki articles

If the reason for wikipedia having an article on lipstick lesbians, is to provide information on the subject.. Then how does the inclusion of the existance of male ID'ed butch women, who dress as lipstick lesbians present a problem? What is confusing about the pharagraph? Why should this small section of the GLBT (etc) be denied representation on Wikipedia? Ending confusion... and the opinions that this just one persons experience is a reason for leaving the infomation, not deleting it. Does anyone here really think I am the ONLY FtM transgendered person in the world who dresses as a female? Maybe the bias that real lesbians are suposed to look like guys is too thick? Let the paragraph stay. Is the purpose of the artical to inform on the subject or only to represent the girly girl/porn star/fake lesbian stereotypes? If you would like the passage to be structured better, tell me what would help you understand it better. Someone's personal confusion should not be a reason to remove content. Habitstock22 (talk) 19:17, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Lipstick/chapstick difference

Kso...Am I the only one who thinks Chapstick lesbian should be a redirect to Soft butch, not here? As a chapstick lesbian myself, I find this strange. Chapstick lesbians and soft butches are lesbians that fall in between butch and femme, lipstick lesbians are very feminine lesbians (and often attracted to other lipstick lesbians). There's a bit of a difference. Stealthy (talk) 02:10, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

"Extremely feminine"?

In the intro it describes a lipstick lesbian as "lesbian and bisexual women who exhibit extremely feminine gender attributes, such as wearing make-up (thus, lipstick), wearing dresses or skirts and having other characteristics associated with feminine women".

How is wearing makeup and skirts/dresses extreme?