Talk:Chakavian

Ok,.. No one seems to have mentioned the Korzulot accent, which really should be in the Vegliot (Velyot) Section, and not here.

Č and Ć

I think that it would be worth mentioning that in chakavian dialect Č and Ć are noticeably different sounds, while in standard Croatian there's virtually no difference, they both sound like Č.

Also chakavian doesn't have Lj, which is replaced with J(or in some cases L).

Martin 11:53, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Not realy. In Chakavian dialect Ć is more like T' (soft Tj), more softer than standard. In Standard Croatian there exists a difference between Č and Ć, although that difference is not heard if it is spoken by speakers of Kajkavian dialect (people from Northwest Croatia)... --Čeha (razgovor) 22:17, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

My edit

I've removed some unreferenced parts, that were nigh-on- original research. Kubura (talk) 12:22, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Maps

The maps are a bit wrong. Nobody speaks Chakavian around Split, and in Split itself only older folks in the very city center. In the islands it s abit more common, but rare nontheless. People usually don't say "cha" but "shta?" (i.e. "šta?"). --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 19:27, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Chakavian dialect is exclusive Croatian dialect

1. Chakavian dialect (Čakavian) is exclusive Croatian dialect or dialect of Croatian language (spoeake Croats). Chakavian is not Serbian or Serbo-Croatian dialect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.237.112.209 (talk) 15:14, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

True, Chakavian is spoken by Croats, not Serbs. But there is no Croatian language in any coherent sense that would include Chakavian, because anything that would include Chakavian and Shtokavian would have to include all of Shtokavian and thus Serbian as well as Croatian. Ethnically, one can say that Chakavian is a dialect of Croatian, but linguistically, dialectologically, it's a dialect of Serbo-Croatian.

As for the map, I've asked if it might be more accurate than our current map. If it is, we can use it instead, though we would have to change it from "Croatian" to "Serbo-Croatian", as it includes both Croatian and Serbian. — kwami (talk) 15:29, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

1.Kajkavian, Čakavian and West stokavian they are dialects of Croatian language. Croatian language is stylized to the west stokavian style, but it includes all the Croatian dialect.

2. All Croatian dialects differ from the Serbian dialects.

3. I do not understand your view, how can one classify a dialect unintelligible to Serbs in Serbian dialects. This is madness! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.237.112.209 (talk) 15:54, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

4. See this map, on it you can very accurately determine what the Croatian dialect or dialects of Croatian language, as a Serbian dialect or dialects Serbijan language.

Three Croatian dialects and two dialects of Serbian

See:

• The Croatian language is based on Western-Stokavian dialect, participate in building standards and the other two dialects; Kajkavian and Chakavian.
• Serbian language is based on East-Stokavian dialect, participate in building standards and Torlakian dialects.

That is a map of dialects in the 15th century when there where no Croatian or Serbian peoples, which were created only in the 19th century. Today, there is no such thing as "Western Štokavian" or "Eastern Štokavian", and the dialectal map is significantly different. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 16:15, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Today's picture has not remained exactly the same, the differences were reduced but not disappeared.

Is logic purely Croatian dialect called Serbian ?

How do you explain the numerous differences between the Serbian language and the Croatian language ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.237.112.209 (talk) 16:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Čakavian is unintelligible to speakers of standard Croatian. How can you classify a dialect unintelligible to Croats as a Croatian dialect?

We don't classify it as a dialect of Serbian. Where did anyone ever say that it was?

Standard Croatian and Standard Serbian are perfectly intelligible. The differences are mostly due to different sources of borrowing of technical vocabulary. — kwami (talk) 17:38, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and can you enumerate those present-day differences of interest between "Western" and "Eastern" Štokavian? Which of those two forms is spoken by the Bosnian Serbs of Republika Srpska, as well as Croatian Serbs? You don't know the answer to this question do you. You're just repeating mindlessly some mantra of "differences" that you read on some nationalist webpage, which you neither understand nor it has anything to do with reality. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 18:56, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

What kind of policy you run here ?

Your views here are political and not real. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.237.112.209 (talk) 16:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Croatian dialects are not Serbian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.237.112.209 (talk) 17:02, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

They are chetniks. 20 years ago they tried to cut our people, it failed, not they are trying to do the same with our culture. Sick people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.3.42.16 (talk) 10:39, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I suggest you get yourself acquainted with linguistics before meddling with things that relate to languages or dialects. I'm aware that the temptation to consider yourself an expert is high being that everyone *speaks* a language and *communicates* in one, but I assure you, having an emotional response to something that's written *doesn't make you an expert*. Calling Kajkavian, Čakavian and Štokavian dialects "Serbo-Croatian" is reasonable and isn't considered a fringe opinion (I'm perfectly aware of the fact that Kajkavian and Čakavian aren't spoken by non-Croatians but unless the effort is made to standardize them and turn them into independent languages, putting them into the Serbo-Croatian dialect continuum doesn't equate to "killing a culture", and certainly no more than the practice of subjugating those same dialects in Croatia). Tty29a (talk) 15:53, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

You have no idea what you're talking about! Čakavian and Kajkavian are not only not spoken by non-Croats. They are different. Štokavian can not be Serbo- since Serbian original speeches were Torlakian and Serbo-Slavic and only Serbo-Slavic had some Štokavian elements. But, today Serbs speak language of the Croats. Croatian language (Kajkavian, Čakavian and Štokavian) is Croatian language. If Serbs speak Serbo-Croatian we don't care - not our business. What we care about is that we don't speak anything like Serbo-. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.153.114 (talk) 07:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

How it is possible that also illerate 100 years old serbian grandmothers and grandfathers speak only stokavian and never have speak serboslavic. Chakavian is more differnt from stokavian as torlakian. Vuk Karadzic have use the language of his village as standartization for serbian and croatian.

Chakavian speaking Slovenes or chakavian speaking Slovenian citizens claiming to be ethnical Slovenes

Ther are chakavian speaking Slovenes or chakavian speaking Slovenian citizens claiming to be ethnical Slovenes south of Podgrad (Golac, Polane, Starod), community Ilirska Bistrica, Slovenia.

http://istra.lzmk.hr/clanak.aspx?id=2291

http://www.primorske.si/Primorska/Srednja-Primorska/Cica-ni-prevarija-nidan-hudic!.aspx

80.109.224.73 (talk) 07:17, 21 May 2011 (UTC)