Talk:Kobold (Dungeons & Dragons)

New Idea for Merger

New Idea. On the Kobold Page, people thought that the folklore and gaming stuff should be seperate, at least. I see how the folklore stuff could be seperate (although it's still pretty short). Could we combine the two gamer pages, at least? GumbyProf: "I'm about ideas, but I'm not always about good ideas." 21:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Support. Kobolds in gaming and Kobolds in Dungeons and Dragons can definately be merged in my opinion. If more information can be added to this page would help a lot, it would also cut down by one article that really doesn't need to be seperate. DeMyztikX 19:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Alternate proposal: Since D&D what the first game (AFAIK) to use kobolds, since the D&D article is so comprehensive, & since the information covering kobolds in other games is so short, my solution would be to add that information in a separate section of this article, such as "Kobolds in other games and media" (see the Gnoll article for something similar). This would prevent this article from becoming overly long should someone want to expand on, say the kobolds in Final Fantasy or WoW.--Robbstrd 01:07, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

(again) Why? These are distinct concepts. The D&D Kobolds are lizardlike and have nothing in common with the kobolds of German folklore except their name. Kobolds in gaming is, similiarly, about the use of the name Kobold in fantasy games. They are about different subjects, they just happen to share the same name. I don't think the kobolds of folklore are used enough in games to justify a seperate article, but an article listing the various uses of the name is perfectly fine.--SB | T 20:28, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Isn't D&D a fantasy game? Aren't they all (loosely) based on the same Kobolds from folklore? I can't imagine that the Nethack folks or Warhammer or Magic: The Gathering (or whomever) didn't either take the name from D&D, who took it from folklore. Even if they said, "oh, our Kobolds will be lizard-like instead of doglike," that's still coming out of the previous incarnation. I think the main question, as raised by Robstrd above, is whether Kobolds in gaming is the main page, with D&D as the most prominent game, or this D&D page becomes the main page, with a brief mention of the others. In either case, there should also be a disambiguation page. If they are kept seperate, then the D&D link should be at the very top of the gaming page, so that someone who thinks that the D&D is gaming would know where to find it. GumbyProf: "I'm about ideas, but I'm not always about good ideas." 03:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

"Inspiration" has nothing to do with it. They are distinct concepts that share little in common aside from their name, and both articles have plenty of unique content, so there's (still) no reason to merge them.--SB | T 03:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Previous Merger Proposal

I have proposed that 3 pages about Kobold be merged into the main page. GumbyProf: "I'm about ideas, but I'm not always about good ideas." 03:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Why? This article is clearly about a distinct concept.--SB | T 05:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

This would be a daft idea. A head-note to the alternate meanings might be an idea, but merging the articles would be a distinct error. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 20:55, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind. See new proposal. GumbyProf: "I'm about ideas, but I'm not always about good ideas." 21:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Kobolds & dragons

Other than sharing the same language (which is a 3E retcon), are there any sources which state these two creature definitely are (NOT "may be" or "possibly") related?--Robbstrd 16:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

How about 'The Ascension of Kurtulmak', from Races of the Dragon? There it says that Kobolds were the children of a green dragon. It's a myth, but in DnD, myths are more than often true, at the DM's disgression. The Kobold race itself would probably attest their innate sorcerer abilities to their decendance from dragons. Khatoblepas 16:30, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Also in the Neverwinter Expansion HotU, Deekin the kobold says several times that he has Dragon Blood in him, and can train to be a Dragon Disciple. Jacob "Badger Head" Morris 20:38, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

As can any race in the game. Kobolds, humans, elves and dwarves are not dragon related as a species, just those individuals who have a dragon in their ancestory through the bestiality of the individual dragon (shape shited) in their heritage. Does evolution work in the D&D universe? I would have thought it would actually be a creationist universe in that it actually has a supreme god, Lord Ao.

Grand Moff Tanner (talk) 15:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Which D&D universe. Similarities exist but for instance Ao is an FR god. In the third edition core kobolds are certainly, if not "genetically' related, then somehow otherwise related to dragons. Of course the fact that this was a relatively recent concept and that in second edition and earlier kobolds were "small dog-men" was the core nature of kobolds. Also certain sections of this have far too much information that pertains to only 3.5 without noting it as such.

Pun Pun

Deleted the pun-pun bullet because the article it refers to is no longer around.

Goblinoid vs. Reptilian

What is this? Goblinoid or Reptilian. - Peregrine Fisher 08:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Reptilian, according to the Monster Manual 3E, but knowing nothing of the original game, I'll be bold and note that it was originally Goblinoid. -Jeske ^{(v^_^v)} 08:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Reptilian doesn't seem to be one of the Creature type (Dungeons & Dragons). - Peregrine Fisher 17:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Goblinoid isn't a type, either, but a subtype. Reading the Monster Manual, it says a Kobold is a "Small Humanoid (Reptilian)" (direct quote). -Jeske ^{(v^_^v)} 17:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Origin

Where did D&D get the idea of changing the dwarf-like kobolds of German fairy tales, into the reptile-dog with horns? My theory is that they got the idea from a 1555 German woodcut from Historia de Gentibus Septentrionalibus, by Olaus Magnus. In it, a mining 'gnome' (mabey 'kobold' in German) looks like a black demon with horns, which resembles the D&D kobolds. [1]76.81.194.199 12:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

No original research. Give us proof that they deliberately based it off that woodcut and not off a fairy tale with kobolds in it. Until then, all we have is speculation. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v Kacheek!)} 23:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Kobold.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Claim of copyright violation

I have removed the section on "Tucker's Kobolds" because a user has claimed that including it here constitutes a copyright violation. Please do not restore this material until the issue is resolved. Nandesuka (talk) 23:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

The consensus on WP:AN/I is to leave this material in, with the redirect and history restored. Done. Nandesuka (talk) 01:23, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Kobold Ecology, History, Etc

Would it be possible to do a section on this information as it pertains to the older editions of the game as well. 3e Kobolds and AD&D Kobolds differ in a number of ways. Emry (talk) 01:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Notability

Why is it that Pun-Pun merits his own position? He is not cited in any legitimate media, and despite his strength, does not deserve mention. Far more important things do, such as Encyclopedia Dramatica.Ch ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.164.5.52 (talk) 23:27, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Pun-Pun probably should be regarded as notable, not for his strength but for his fame as an example of the Character Optimization sub-hobby within D&D, taken in his case to the Nth degree. His name crops up a lot on the Wizards boards, Giant in the Playground, and no doubt other places. I'd put him in a "non-canonical" subhead of the Famous Kobolds list, but am too lazy to look up references and such so I'll let someone else do it if they agree with me that it's fitting. 71.34.53.124 (talk) 14:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)