User talk:Jclemens

Welcome, correspondents If you're here because I deleted an article you think should be undeleted, please read this first and remember--Most of the time, I didn't write the text that appears in the deletion summary.
N.B. I don't respond well to either fawning or abuse. Talk to me like a peer, assume good faith, and you'll find I reciprocate in my helpfulness.

Functionary Assistance My ability to help as a checkuser, oversighter, or arbitrator in individual matters is currently limited by my positional and non-Wikipedia obligations. For non-trivial assistance, especially that which requires extensive consideration of private correspondence, you will likely get a faster response by asking another functionary.

Position Essays may help you understand my point of view with regard to...

• Notability of Fictional Topics
• Articles for Deletion
• Blocks
• My RfA Standards

Administrator Goals Doing my best to improve the tiny little wedge in the top center:

Question

During your election campaign I made some comments about you on the election discussion page, indicating that I thought there had been various problems in the handling of the abortion case, for which you had been the main drafter. The problems mentioned there were not unrelated with Captain Occam's subsequent site-ban on wikipedia. After you were elected—and this is only a vague recollection, which I have not checked with diffs—you made some acidic comments about those who had made remarks about you during your election campaign, which I suppose must necessarily have included me. You also seemed at an earlier stage to have "adopted" Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin as your "pets". (That impression could be faulty.) In the circumstances, do you think it is completely appropriate, per WP:INVOLVED, to be making any kind of comments in the amendment request at the moment? Do you not think in fact that it would have been more appropriate for you to have recused from discussion on-wiki or off-wiki in early January? Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 18:24, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

I think one of the more exasperating things about the whole situation was your assumption of bad faith on my part. When Occam was here trying to get me to sanction you, I suggested instead that he help out by reviewing publicly available evidence (talk page diffs showing inappropriate conduct). As I said before, I did this to try and distract him from your common and seemingly intractable dispute. You chose to opine that such was a biased handling of the situation, which is your right. However, administrator action does not trigger WP:INVOLVED--only personal or editorial-level disagreement, and I am not recalling any instance where I have been in a content or intepersonal dispute with you. Likewise, when someone participates in the electoral process, that doesn't trigger INVOLVED either, else each arbitrator would have to recuse on each guide writer and every editor who had offered a public opinion, good or bad, on the arb as candidate. Having said that, I would be inclined to recuse if the solution were an outright sanction on you, instead of a bilateral interaction ban. As is, I think there's enough objective evidence that you and Ferahgo don't need to be interacting that I'm not particularly concerned about the appearance of impropriety. Still, I'll ask the rest of the committee what they think about it, and if the general opinion is that it would be better for me to recuse, then I will--of course, this might have the unintended consequence of getting some arbs to comment more quickly on the interaction ban proposal. Jclemens (talk) 20:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

FYI, the message to the rest of the committee seeking input just now went out. Jclemens (talk) 03:03, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Moot now. Mathsci (talk) 20:45, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Noted. For the record, the response was rather anemic, but unanimous that there was nothing which would prompt my recusal. Jclemens (talk) 04:36, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Undelete Article

Hi,

Can you please undelete the Article Greenware (computing)?

Regards, DSp

Found here: http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=1467 http://wordweb.info/free/licence5.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.2.164.178 (talk) 08:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

This was done yesterday. I tagged it for notability, feel free to improve it. Cheers, Jclemens-public (talk) 16:15, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

RfC COI

Thank you for commenting on my view. It gave me a whole new perspective about the things happening in Wikipedia. FYI, I have further clarified my opinion below your statement.--Anbu121 (talk me) 06:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

{{You've Got Mail}} Rivertorch (talk) 07:28, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Replied in email, thanks. Jclemens (talk) 07:46, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks a lot for overturning G11 on the page DesignTech Systems created by me. Prateekshah03 —Preceding undated comment added 14:31, 1 March 2012 (UTC).

You're welcome. Please work to improve it beyond what it is now. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 04:37, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Will do so for sure. Thanks again for the assistance! prateekshah03 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.180.147.103 (talk) 05:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Refactor your comments

Refactor your weak and misguided attempt at snide condescension.[1] It is unbecoming of an Administrator, and most unbecoming of an Arbitrator, to insult the intelligence of other editors engaging in productive dialogue, especially in a RFC. Ordinary mortals without an official Wikipedia Bag-o-Tricks get their hands slapped here at Wikipedia for such comments. Fladrif (talk) 16:06, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

You've misconstrued my statement. By saying "you really ought to read up on game theory", I'm 1) assuming good faith that your failure to get the point is not an obstructionist debating tactic, but that you really don't understand what I see as a flaw your proposal, and 2) that such failure to understand is easily fixed by you thinking through game theory--that is, that it stems from ignorance rather than any lack of intelligence. If you don't know where to get started with game theory, I'd recommend Games of Strategy by Dixit and Skeath (c.f. Google Books). One of my key problems with the solutions proposed by you and others is that the reward 'bad' behavior and penalize 'good'; you're not the only one proposing things like this and such approaches, as a class, have what I believe to be a fatal flaw. Jclemens (talk) 17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, this seems like a much more reasonably priced introduction to game theory. Haven't read it, and its reviews are so-so, but I hadn't realized how expensive a new copy of the current edition of Games of Strategy actually is. Jclemens (talk) 22:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

So, your personal variant on Hanlon's Razor with anyone who questions your reasoning, or perhaps more accurately, your lack of precision in the choice of words to express your reasoning is "don't attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance"? Nice. And you think that's an improvement how? I'm going to assume that you have no idea what degrees I hold; what books and papers I read; what books and papers I write. I'll again suggest...strongly...that you refactor. But, in the interest of collegiality, let me recommend to you another authoritative text on game theory:

Don't f*ck with eagles unless you know how to fly. Blutarksi, Bluto Animal House (1978)

Just don't consult the 25th Anniversary Edition - it inexplicably edited out that scene. Fladrif (talk) 00:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

So you have editor A and B. Both are COI editors. A chooses to disclose his COI per the recommendation, and is harassed, hounded, and scrutinized. He jumps through whatever hoops are considered necessary prior restraint on his edits. B chooses not to disclose his COI and makes unremarkable contributions: maybe NPOV, maybe slightly not, but not egregious enough to draw any attention. B has an easier time of it than A, regardless of the motivation of either editor.

Now, add to this that we have no reliable way to detect whether A or B are COI editors. Checkuser data (which is not for fishing...) is only able to ascertain the barest of facts about an editor's connection. Without invoking WP:BEANS, suffice it to say that any reasonable effort to avoid CU connecting an editor and his or her employer is likely to succeed.

Thus, you propose an optional--and unworkable if mandatory--step that discourages editors from taking it because it offers them only downside without any reasonably expected upside. I will never support a change in policy that penalizes (or whatever term you want to use) forthright and honest behavior and rewards (again, substitute something else if desired) sneaky behavior. If that doesn't make sense... then I cannot help you. Jclemens (talk) 01:28, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

You seem to have missed the point entirely. So, I'll spell it out. Slowly.

• I have no problem with your disagreeing with my recommendations or others of the same ilk. You've at least acknowledged that your "penalty" and "reward" rhetoric is off base, when what you are really talking about is simply incentives. But, this is not the place for debating the merits of the various proposals at the RFC, and that was not my purpose in posting here.
• My fundamental objection, and the reason that I raised it on this page rather than at the RFC, where it would be a distraction, is that you appear incapable of expressing your disagreement, however imprecisely, without coupling it with insults bordering on personal attacks.
• Rather than acknowledge that your gratuitious comments were wildly inappropriate and refactoring them as requested, you double down instead. Bad form, and definitely conduct unbecoming an Arbitrator. As I said above, "ordinary" editors get sanctioned for far less. Fladrif (talk) 02:05, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

So all this is because you are splitting hairs between "incentives" and "rewards"? I've reread the discussion in light of that revelation, and have no apologies to offer you for my attempt to help you understand what I meant. I also do not apologize for insults that I did not make, nor for perceived personal attacks in my attempts to help. I am sorry that you're seeing such where they do not exist, but that's outside my control. Jclemens (talk) 02:16, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

The intellectual version of WOW

Should be of some interest to you [2]. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 11:45, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Another one of PaoloNapolitano's accounts

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=37049&st=40&p=300601&mode=linear#entry300601

Special:Contributions/MichaelJackson231 – You probably should block MichaelJackson231 as well. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 13:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

It appears my colleagues have been handling this situation while I was unavailable. Thanks for the heads up. Jclemens-public (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

User Coolsvilleowner

Please can you look at the message left for you on the talk page of Coolsvilleowner? Thank you. -- Fluteflute ^{Talk Contributions} 08:19, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks

I would like to say thank you for unblocking me and keep up the good editing. Coolsvilleowner (talk) 18:02, 9 March 2012 (UTC)