Jump to content

Talk:Pallar: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
Adding Importance using AWB
Tamil1988 (talk | contribs)
471 edits
→‎Puller: new section
Line 271: Line 271:
[[Image:MallarMallathi2.jpg|200px|right|thumb|Mallar and Mallathi]]
[[Image:MallarMallathi2.jpg|200px|right|thumb|Mallar and Mallathi]]
:Quick question for '''Tamil1988''', what's the story with this image? If it's just something you put together with various names for Pallar, that's [[fan art]] and not really admissible. If it's not something you yourself made (which is how it's labeled on the upload) then that's a copyright issue and you need to identify the author/origin. Plus I'm not really clear what purpose the image serves. Maybe instead we could find some historical photographs of membrs of the Pallar community? [[User:MatthewVanitas|MatthewVanitas]] ([[User talk:MatthewVanitas|talk]]) 19:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
:Quick question for '''Tamil1988''', what's the story with this image? If it's just something you put together with various names for Pallar, that's [[fan art]] and not really admissible. If it's not something you yourself made (which is how it's labeled on the upload) then that's a copyright issue and you need to identify the author/origin. Plus I'm not really clear what purpose the image serves. Maybe instead we could find some historical photographs of membrs of the Pallar community? [[User:MatthewVanitas|MatthewVanitas]] ([[User talk:MatthewVanitas|talk]]) 19:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

== Puller ==

They were never called by the name "Puller". It might be a pronounciation mistake by that colonel author.Also "Pallan" is not their previous name it is a word that denotes a single person and not a group.

Revision as of 12:38, 8 June 2012

WikiProject iconTamil civilization Start‑class (inactive)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Tamil civilization, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Tamil civilizationWikipedia:WikiProject Tamil civilizationTemplate:WikiProject Tamil civilizationTamil civilization articles
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Please add {{WikiProject banner shell}} to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconIndia: Tamil Nadu Start‑class Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Tamil Nadu (assessed as High-importance).
Please add {{WikiProject banner shell}} to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconEthnic groups Start‑class Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups articles
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:

Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks:

Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

A Big Fine Mess

I can barely make head nor tail of this article: duplicate sections with slightly differing wording, no formating to speak of, a mix of lore with fact. The problems are innumerable. I'm going to cut huge swatches from this. I may make mistakes but it is impossible to read in this form. Pigman 03:25, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've made a pass through it and cut duplicate sections and did some minor formatting, mostly to break up the huge blocks of text. I'm not familiar with the subject but there are massive POV problems with it. I'm having trouble differentiating between what seems to be religious (and apparently at least partially legendary) history and concrete history. This article needs an expert and to be refined down to pertinent facts. It rambles and the sections are not properly titled or organized. I may be back to work on it but I doubt it; it's just too overwhelming for me. Pigman 04:06, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

POV and original research vs. scientific angle

The problem with most articles about Indian castes is that there is too much POV. In an encyclopedia, the article about a people group should be as close to the anthropological/ethnological/ethnographic point of view as possible.

Caste-promotion should be left aside. It is of no interest to the readers, and it reflects social/political agendas that are mostly POV. Signed: Shiva 122.162.165.45 (talk) 13:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

help regarding history of dalits in indian freedom movement against british imperialist

help regarding history of dalits in indian freedom movement against british imperialist

moderators are asking reliable source for dalits freedom movement

dalit political leaders should help in updating dalits battle against british imperialist Raja.m82 (talk) 08:35, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not make live articles without appropriate reliable sources - please re-read WP:FIRST. You can work on articles in your own userspace, before making them live - WP:USERSPACEDRAFT.  Chzz  ►  08:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

i will come with reliable sources about dalits involvement in freedom struggle against british imperialism i need some time because of some constraints

i will come with reliable sources about dalits involvement in freedom struggle against british imperialism i need some time because of some constraints

without evidence i will not edit about dalits freedom fighters againt british imperialism becuase i believe in non feudalistic democracy journalism Raja.m82 (talk) 12:32, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

please who deleted pasupathy pandian founder of devenderar vellalar kootamimipu (also from pallar community)

please who deleted pasupathy pandian founder of devenderar vellalar kootamimipu (also from pallar community) should update his history in wikepedia to understand the struggle of dalits


ur deletion thinks u want monopoly in leadership of pallar community to a particular doctor from that community

ur approach is not good for a good democracyRaja.m82 (talk) 07:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Please dont fight in the notable people section

There is a lot of fight going on in the notable people section.So i have deleted it.This is for everyone to notice please dont fight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamil1988 (talk • contribs) 07:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with the figure for population.

The figure given for Pallar population: 1.5 crores is unbelievable. Considering only the Tamil Nadu's population of 6,24,05,679 from Census 2001 data and the fact that the Scheduled Caste population for Tamil Nadu in that Census 2001 is 1,18,57,504 , it works out to be 2.54 percentage points more than the whole Scheduled Caste population.

Percentage of Pallars according to this site: 24.03

Percentage of total Scheduled Caste population according to Census 2001: 21.49

You might ask to consider the population in the rest of the world. But consider this:

The Tamil speaking population according to Wikipedia under 'Tamil People' is 7,70,00,000.

Again the percentage you give is 19.5% of all Tamil speaking people. Still not believable.

These figures are important. They show the reliability of the content that's being read. Do something about this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnrameshkhan (talk • contribs) 20:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

About the population

According to the census of 2001 the population of pallar is not 1.5 crore. So what is the reason for denoting the population as 1.5 crore. The reason is many people belonging to this caste were mentioned as Adidravidar in the census. So their population became very less according to the census. These people live in all the districts in Tamilnadu largely except northern districts where they are found very less. Also the subcaste of the Devendar kula vellalar such as Kaaladi,moopan are present in Backward class and Mannadi present in MBC. So the population is mentioned as 1.5 crore. The exact population of the Devendra kula vellalar will be available after the caste population calculation which is going to take place in 2011.Tamil1988 (talk) 06:34, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Census Data of each Tamil Dalit caste.

http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/dh_sc_tamilnadu.pdf Johnrameshkhan (talk) 19:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)rjrk[reply]

Please dont use the word 'Dalit'

Please dont use the word 'Dalit' when you are mentioning about 'Devendra kula vellalar'. This is a request on behalf of the 'Devendra kula vellalar' people. Our people get hurt by that word.117.193.65.107 (talk) 14:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please dont fight in the notable people section

It is not good if you continue to fight in the notable people section. I will remove it completely. Fighting to put the names of your favorite politician and removing the politician names whom you dont like. Are you all children fighting like this. No one is concerned to improve this article. Simply fighting for names then how other's will respect this community people.Tamil1988 (talk) 07:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Devaneya Pavanar

As per Pavanar's moziyarachi katturaikal (மொழியாராய்ச்சிக் கட்டுரைகள்) his grand father name is Muthusamy Thevar, so Pavanar does not belong to Pallar. --Kurumban (talk) 02:34, 22 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Condemn

Devaneya pavanar belongs to 'Devendra kula vellalar' caste. There is no such caste called 'Thevar' in the entire list of cates in Tamilnadu. Please mention any valid name, also if you want to mention about 'Devendra kula vellalar' use 'Devendra kulathar' it is present in the list. I condemn your comments.Tamil1988 (talk) 11:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tamil quotes

In this article iam interested in adding two Tamil quotes from 9th and 10th century Tamil dictionary. Which is only 2 lines in length. And iam also going to explain its meaning in English. Since this article is controlled by admin i need your views on this matter.Tamil1988 (talk) 16:15, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What do they say in English and what do you intend for them to support? Any documents of that age will almost necessarily count as primary sources, which means we have to be careful and not interpret their meaning in any way. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:51, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I dont want to interpret their meaning in any way. I will give the meaning for them in English as same as their meaning in the Tamil. They are to be mentioned to support the claim that there was a caste with the name Mallar and their work is mentioned as farming and fighting.Tamil1988 (talk) 04:08, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List of notables

...they must stay removed until a reliable source verifies that the people are/were in the Pallar/Mallar caste. The citation can be either here or on the linked Wikipedia article, but it must be verified or they cannot be listed. WP:NLIST clarifies that there are absolutely no exceptions to this for living people, and it is generally true for deceased people, though verification is always better. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:50, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Notable people section should be added to this article because not all the names mentioned there are non verified specially two names like Immanuvel Devendrar and Veeran Sundaralingam are verified. You could have removed the non verified name until they have been verified.Tamil1988 (talk) 04:13, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just read every reference on Immanuvel Devendrar (except the last one, which isn't online) and not one of them verifies which caste his is in. The article says he is Devendra kula vellalar, but it doesn't support that with a reliable source. Veeran does seem to be verified, so I'll put him back (it wasn't directly linked, but it's there, so my mistake). Qwyrxian (talk) 08:35, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why every time the list of notable persons deleted from this Mallar page. The list provided are very much true.

These are the references:

Sundarapandian1978 (talk) 06:21, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of the first to are reliable sources per WP:RS. As for the third, it's up to the person who wants to include the info to provide the sources--you can't just tell us to search for them. Reliable sources include articles in major newspapers, academic journals or books, some government publications, etc. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:24, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More references for notable people:

Also don't forget to read the comments below in the article by public people.


Sundarapandian1978 (talk) 06:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You need to read WP:RS. Blogs and other self-published websites are almost never reliable. Comments on any site are even less reliable. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:53, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More references for notable people and they belong to the Mallar community:

And lot more references for the notable people in Mallar community. The above are reputed Indian newspaper websites. Do read and understand the reputation of the notable people in Mallar community. Also you will understand how these people work hard for the community's uplift.

After reading all the news articles i want to re-enter all the names in the notable people list. Please take this a kind request and hope it is as per wiki rules & laws.Sundarapandian1978 (talk) 07:46, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm trying to assume you're contributing in good faith....but you're being extraordinarily unhelpful. First, list each source with a specific person. It's not my job (or anyone else's) to go through each of the articles and see which ones verify which person. Second, some of these are still very clearly not RS, likke the "diverseeducation" or wikipedia articles. Third, for any of the non-English ones, you're going to need to provide a translation of exactly which person and what the article says that indicates the person is Pallar. Here's what you should do: make a list, below (not in a new section, just right below this comment). Put the person's name you want, followed by the citation. Include only citations that meet WP:RS. If the citation is not in English, translate the relevant sentence. Do not include anyone who does not have a Wikipedia article (we'll deal with those later, as we need more specific info out of the source than just verification that they are Pallar). I'm not trying to be mean, but I do need to know what it is I'm looking for in each citation before figuring out if it's sufficient. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think this user has bypassed this conversation altogether. See: List of Mallar / Devendra Kula Vellalar / Pallar. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 15:38, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have requested speedy deletion of that page under A10 (G12 also applies since it copies this article w/o attribution), and given a very stern warning to Sundarapandian1978. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:38, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Qwyrxian. I agree. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 03:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
On a sidenote, Sundarapandian1978, you also can't put "Thiru" in front of everyone's name. Honorifics are not used in Wikipedia, except perhaps in the lede of a specific person's bio to indicate any special titles (knighthood, doctorate, religious titles) that they may have achieved. Generic titles of respect before names are not NPOV. MatthewVanitas (talk) 01:45, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See the Pallar talk page for references, for what you have asked. In future before deleting, you better surf and search. If you want more i will be glad to provide more references in pallar talk page. Hope you know how to use google. Google have all the references you have. I have given the notable people name only after referring all possible data, and never gave any random names. And it is not necessary for us to give any random names for our community. So kindly you better read the references and undo the changes you have done.

Please read the references & undo the changes what you have done.

T0 User talk:Dr.K. Sundarapandian1978 (talk) 07:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please read what user Qwyrxian tells you above. I agree with what he tells you. Also specifically with First, list each source with a specific person. It's not my job (or anyone else's) to go through each of the articles and see which ones verify which person.. I couldn't have said it better myself. Also your hope that "I can use Google" has been fulfilled. I do. But *I do not have to use it* for the reasons that user Qwyrxian has told you above. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 15:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article is way out of whack with scholarly focus - no mention of Dalits, OBC violence, etc?

I've done some basic glancing at gBooks to see what comes up with "Pallar". Turns out there's a ton of fascinating stuff about Dalit vs. OBC caste politics and extensive violence, issues of feminism, caste redefinition, etc. Basically none of which is in this article except in a very between-the-lines way in mentioning their name change. Most of the article is political argument for the Mallar and Pallar being the same, and the Pallar having been important people prior to Great Historical Wrongs which put them in their current (not mentioned in the article) low status. Most of this article needs to be wiped, the political argument removed and then summarised as a description of the argument, not a defence of it. Plus most of the "Origin" doesn't even mention the Mallar (the supposed origin), so is a ton of scene-setting better handled by wikilinks. This article really needs a hard look at what the academic and journalistic worlds find most noteworthy about the Pallar, not a place for the Pallar to propagandise, or demand the word "Dalit" not be used to spare feelings. Denying a people's history, even or especially when it isn't all unicorns and sunshine, is doing nobody a favour. MatthewVanitas (talk) 02:06, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all Dalit is not a name these people like to be tagged with them. Also the word Dalit is unconstitutional which is mostly used by the media to refer the whole scheduled caste. The constitution of India does not allow anyone to use the name other than Scheduled caste to refer to the caste belonging to Scheduled caste. If anyone uses anyother names to refer to Scheduled caste it is an offence. That is the reason why that word is not used in this article. Also the violence and caste clashes between these people and other caste was mentioned in this article but it was removed by the administrator. You have put the name Devendra kula vellalar and mentioned that it means that they are created by Devendra to serve the vellalar caste. It is a wrong statement Devendra kula vellalar means they are agriculturist who are the descendance of Devendra. They are not slaves who would serve other caste by the creation of god. Please read Tamilnadu governments history to know about this people. They are only mentioned as agriculturist not as serving other caste. Gbooks does not have all the books about these people so we could not take into account some books which have some information about these people. Origin which you have mentioned above actually tells about the Mallar. Devendra kula vellalar name is mentioned in the origin because to explain the reason why these people are using this name to refer themselves.Tamil1988 (talk) 12:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Several points:
  • Neither "the Indian government doesn't allow it" nor "it hurts peoples' feelings" are legitimate reasons to remove the absolutely vital word "Dalit" from the article. Major Indian newspapers used that term to refer to the Pallar not four days ago, so who are we to censor it: "The founder of Gospel Lutheran Christian Union that worked for the emancipation of the Pallar sub-caste among the Dalits".[1] I can't imagine how anyone is expected to understand the Pallars' situation without understanding their Dalit history; this seems terrible whitewashing.
  • The source linked appeared to translate the term as "serving the Vellar". I have removed that comment for the moment, but will re-check the source and look for further details.
  • I'm not particularly interested in history as published by the Tamil Nadu government, since they may have their own agenda, so I'd prefer to look at publications by academics specialising in South India.
  • The Origin I mentioned does not "actuall tell about the Mallar", it takes forever to get to even the slightest mention of them, and that sets aside entirely the issue of whether the Mallar are the Pallar. If it's a contested point, we should have a page for Mallar, and this article can explain, in brief "Pallar may be Mallar, here are a few theories" and some footnotes. Having entire sections whose titles imply "evidence that the Mallar theory is right" are clearly POV.
Hope this clarifies, please do not remove the term "Dalit" again with such subjective arguments. MatthewVanitas (talk) 14:24, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your action of removing the comment 'serving the vellalar'. The source that you were mentioning might be from a foreign author during the British rule. I too have studied that information. But majority of authors dont accept it. Also we should give respect to the history of Tamilnadu written by scholars from Tamilnadu. Hope you dont post that comment again because it will lead to many concerns. I dont object the term 'Dalit' because these people are continuously becoming victims of caste violation. I can understand your point but my point is these people does not like this term. In the past they have filed case against the newspapers who have mentioned them as 'Dalit'. It may hurt their sentiments. They believe that no one else has the right to name them. They themselves have the right to name themselves. I again repeat Indian constitution doesn't allow anyother name for Scheduled caste. It is unconstitutional. The history part in this article is the history of this people first written by this people and then by other authors. Now this history is accepted by most of the Tamil professors,Tamil scholars,Historians,archaeologist in Tamilnadu. Some of them are mentioned in this article.Tamil1988 (talk) 14:59, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly, I have no problem with Tamil historians provided they are actual academics, not hobbyists, partisans, political leaders, etc. Though certainly it's positive to have non-Tamil and non-British academic sources for neutrality; for example, we wouldn't want to write an article about the Vietnam War using only American and Vietnamese sources, since both nationalities may have trouble divorcing emotion/bias from the topic.
I will look into the "servants of the Vellalar" quote; if it's misinterpreted, or just one source, it can be left out, but if it's commonly held by modern academics, it should be included. I'll poke around more on this etymology issue, and in general the politics involved in the demanded name-change.
The term "Dalit" is consistently used to describe the Pallar in almost all academic and journalistic sources. I realise they may not like the word, but Wikipedia is not censored. Not using the term "Dalit" on WP will not suddenly remove caste biases against the Pallar, but clearly explaining how people labeled "Dalit" have been oppressed might lead to a better understanding, inside and outside India, of the ongoing social evils perpetrated. If the section on anti-Pallar attacks was removed earlier, it might have had troubles with sourcing, bias, or being too anecdotal. I would support having a section on "Caste violence" which gives a cohesive "big picture" view of how the Pallar have been targeted and/or fought with others.
I again repeat Indian constitution doesn't allow anyother name for Scheduled caste. It is unconstitutional. "Unconstitutional" as in the Indian gov't won't use the term, or it's illegal for others to use it? If the first, doesn't really apply. If the second, then there are a whole ton of newspapers and publishers in India using the term that are in big trouble I guess. Further, Wikipedia servers are in Florida, so my understanding is the WikiMedia basically says "we don't have to follow Indian law; if you are in India and are unsure of what you can legally write here, please contact a local legal advisor as we have no position on that." I'm not in India, neither are the servers, so no legal reason not to say "Dalit". On a side-note, I would imagine there's a big difference between "Caste X is labeled a Dalit caste, here is their history" and "hey guys, let's go beat up some Dalits", in terms of what the Indian gov't is trying to prevent. In whatever case, as mentioned above, it's a very important word and should be in the article; if you have RSs to support a more nuanced way to phrase it, I'm open, but there's no way not to have the word "Dalit" appear somehow in the lede.
For the "Origin" section, let's get a few fresh eyes to look at it, but I still submit that even setting aside the Mallar/Pallar issue, it's too meandering and unclear, barely even mentioning the Mallar. And if there is any academic doubt on Mallar/Pallar, it would be better to mention that in brief, vice the current "methinks thou dost protest too much" of building the article as an argument for Mallar/Pallar. MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:24, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Overall, yes, this article is a huge problem; as you say, it's entire purpose seems to be to argue (or, at a minimum present the argument) that Mallar/Pallar are the same. It actually used to be worse; I did one of my aggressive parings on this a while ago, including removal of a lot of POV language and a heavy amount of non-English quotations (if I remember correctly). That entire argument needs to be reduced to a single section (or, if that's impossible, moved to a separate article and summarized here). But since you've managed to begin finding more, new sources, it's probably better to add the new info first and see how the article shapes up, then later cut down the excess. Qwyrxian (talk) 21:22, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence that Pallu poems were derogatory?

Many 'Pallu' poems were written to popularize the name Pallar. These 'Pallu' poems also discriminated against the Mallars.

This arguments smells a little [[WP:FRINGE}]; admittedly I can't find much about pallu poems, but the little snippets I see ("the heroes of numerous pallu poems which since the eighteenth century extol these activities, equating them, ... it is considered to be a substitute for mallar, the warrior- agriculturists of the ancient Sangam age.") don't sound negative. Is there an attested argument that Pallu poems were a tool to disenfranchise the Mallar? Since the material is safely stored here, I'm removing it from the main article until it can be sourced. MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:59, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The 'Pallu' poems are said to be discrimating the 'Mallars' because these people never liked the name 'Pallar' but it was forcefully imposed on them. 'Pallu' poems originated in a time of history when these people were on a decline in social status and Tamil history. Also many pallu poems were written by poets who had backup from the rulers of Tamilnadu at that time i.e) Nayaks so it is the general feeling among these people that 'pallu' poems were written to popularise the name 'Pallar'. Also 'Pallu' poems are totally written about these people and the poems are in large numbers in Tamil literature but these people were never felt proud for that. Instead they claimed these poems were written to discriminate them. Another question arises about the 'Pallu' poems i.e) why should a large number of poems were written about a particular group of people at a time when Tamilnadu was captured by other rulers than Mallars.Tamil1988 (talk) 05:04, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:MaaveeranSundaralingaDevendrar8.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:MaaveeranSundaralingaDevendrar8.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
What should I do?

Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
  • If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
  • If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 11:09, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Secondary source

I want the admin's to check the article about the secondary sources. I have added some secondary sources to this article. If they are satisfied then we can remove the primary sources tag in the article.Tamil1988 (talk) 15:08, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, why not. The article still has a number of primary sources, and is mostly offline sources (which is okay but makes it difficult to verify what the originals say), but it's okay enough I think that I've removed the tag. As a side note, you don't need an admin to do that--you can even do it yourself. If someone else disagrees, they can put it back--and the fact that I'm an admin and removed it holds no extra value, because admins are given no more authority in determining content than any other editor. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:32, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 15 January 2012

Please Include Other Our community Leaders are Veeran Sundralingam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veeran_Sundaralingam) ,Mr.S.Deva Ashirvadham


Selventhiran.irtt (talk) 09:26, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. That article doesn't appear to have any sources verifying Sundralingam was a Pallar. Without that verification, the person cannot appear here. If you do know of a reliable source, please post it here and it can likely be added to his bio and then we can add him here. Qwyrxian (talk) 09:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Request to the administrator

Lots of edits have been done to this article by some person. He removed the section containing details about their history and he has given an explanation that all in Tamilnadu are descendants of kings. Also he has removed many things and also added a {who} tag in the article. There is no need for the {who} tag in that sentence because there is many reference links has been given in that sentence. This itself shows the aim of that person. If people want to know some details about these people and they come to wikipedia what are they going to see. Let these people tell their own history. If you want to remove details about them. please completely remove this article.Tamil1988 (talk) 10:50, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

most references which you are citing are unreliable.can you stop making claims in the air and provide some solid references.Pernoctator (talk) 10:53, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The references which were present here are mostly from the books of Tamilnadu historians, scholars, and also from some newspapers. The claim that you have removed "Mallars are the descendents of chera,chola,pandiyan" is supported by two articles written in Tamilaga arasiyal which is mentioned as a reference in this article. It is an independent source and also the claim "mallar is pallar" is supported by the newspaper article. Then about the links to various other articles in wikipedia is placed here to give information to readers that there are many other castes are present in India with the same name mallar,to support a common belief that many people from this caste went to many places across india. The sports with the name mallar is mentioned due to the same reason. It is an added information about the orgin of these name and not claiming anything.Tamil1988 (talk) 14:19, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

i don't want an explanation on what the sources say.just that the sources you were using are unreliable.also there is a problem of wp synthesis.can you be a liitle more specific on who is saying what.the article is anyways a mess.some of the sources are in tamil.i doubt their credibility.Pernoctator (talk) 14:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

April 2012 renewed cleanup

Been away for a while, both busy with off-wiki life and with other caste articles. I drop back in and see that there's been extensive degradation of the article in the past few months, so reverted back to a March 2012 version. My intentions over the course of this year include:

  • Getting to the bottom (with WP:Reliable sources) as to coverage of the Mallar->Pallar claim. Yes, clearly some have written on this issue, but we don't need a breathless pile of a dozen citations for that one statement. So we should cull through the refs for the most reputable ones, and preferably in English and available online. Not that those last two points are definitive, but just that they'd be of more utility to readers/editors on an online English-language site.
  • Add some decent Public Domain photographs of historical Pallar people and their environment/customs
  • Some commentary as to the culture, lifestyle, and religion of the community
  • Add mention of caste violence, including fights between the Pallar and OBC
  • Maybe some details about their relationships with the Paraiyar?
  • Figure out how Pallars factor into both Buddhist and Christian conversion movements

Those are just a few points, and I'd welcome any help in fleshing them out, as well as removing/replacing any unreliable text or refs. MatthewVanitas (talk) 18:10, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mallar and Mallathi
Quick question for Tamil1988, what's the story with this image? If it's just something you put together with various names for Pallar, that's fan art and not really admissible. If it's not something you yourself made (which is how it's labeled on the upload) then that's a copyright issue and you need to identify the author/origin. Plus I'm not really clear what purpose the image serves. Maybe instead we could find some historical photographs of membrs of the Pallar community? MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Puller

They were never called by the name "Puller". It might be a pronounciation mistake by that colonel author.Also "Pallan" is not their previous name it is a word that denotes a single person and not a group.

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pallar&oldid=496591100"