Talk:Prosimetrum

A first step toward improvement of this article might be made with slight expansion and reorganization.

• The introductory paragraph affords an adequate but bare definition. Reference, for example, to the “differentia of variables” cited in Preminger & Brogan, New Princeton Encylopedia of Poetry and Poetics (1993), p981, would be a reasonable means of presenting a fuller explanation of the formal questions raised by mixed prose-and-verse compositions. I do not have the 2012 4th edition of Princeton at hand but I presume this matter is retained therein and perhaps updated as well.
• The list of Examples, as it now stands, should probably be reorganized by (a) language of composition, and (b) chronology within the sub-category of language. Dates of composition, too, could be added.
• The Further reading list might be expanded.

Are there any objections to proceeding with this?Tristan noir (talk) 04:57, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

The Tale of Genji

I know that technically any work that combines poetry and prose is prosimetrum, so the Genji does technically qualify, but I'm concerned that classifying it as "prosimetrum" in this context might be problematic. All in all the poetry accounts for probably less than 1% of the text; the poetry is not so much a "real-world" narrative device used by the author; but rather one aspect of the characters in the text; and if the text has not been explicitly called prosimetrum in a secondary source, it might qualify as original research for Wikipedia to unilaterally apply that name to it. Anyone have any opinions about this? As far as inclusion of poetry in a fundamentally prose narrative goes, Genji is probably less prosimetrum than The Lord of the Rings. elvenscout742 (talk) 02:58, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I tend to agree. It's perhaps a good thing to expand the range of examples beyond the Latin/Western examples that were originally in the article; but unless reliable sources specifically characterize a particuar work as a prosimetrum, it's definitely OR to include the work here. Also, the examples are just that—examples—and there's a danger of the article's becoming nothing more than a list of every prose work with embedded poems that anyone can think of. In my experience (which is admittedly that of a student of the European Middle Ages), the term is used primarily to describe works such as Boethius' Consolation, where the "narrative" is conducted in alternating passages of prose and poetry. Frankly, I'd be disinclined to apply the term even to the Convivio (pace Dronke), which is a fundamentally different kind of work (poetry + commentary and explication). On the other hand, from what I know of the Thousand and One Nights, I'd say that it almost certainly qualifies. Deor (talk) 13:47, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I honestly haven't come across the term much in Japanese studies, but apparently at least one book (Prosimetrum: Crosscultural Perspectives on Narrative in Prose and Verse) contains an essay by Helen McCullough (a "celebrity" in western studies of Japanese literature). But the free preview available on Google books seems to indicate that McCullough herself avoids the term "prosimetrum" -- she just wrote an essay on "combinations of prose and poetry in classical Japanese literature" for a book that has "prosimetrum" in the title. Another problem is that the article currently applies the term to the Kojiki, which is a historical work that cites folk-songs (not literary "poems", per se). The "article" as it stands now is basically a list, with a one-sentence definition at the top. An expansion of the list under these circumstances could be problematic. Unfortunately, while I could expand the material to discuss Japanese "prosimetra" it would be completely OR. According to the article, The Princeton Encyclopedia apparently states that prosimetrum is widely found in eastern and western literature -- can someone provide a quotation or something more specific?

(Related to your Convivio issue, the article currently located at Tanka prose quotes a book that claims the Man'yōshū, an anthology of poems that contains irregular comments/headnotes, as a prosimetrum, but we probably can't go by those kind of claims!)

Although according to your definition of alternating prose/poetic narrations, Tales of Ise is a near-perfect fit. Surely a reliable source (is Princeton, apparently a tertiary encyclopedia, good enough?) can be found for this work's inclusion? elvenscout742 (talk) 14:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)