Talk:Culture of India

More on Culture

This page needs a section on cultural history and since culture is so closely linked to religion in India, a note on Islamic and western influences. I think we also need more on the actual culture of India (or diversity of culture) and less about art (or it should be called 'Indian culture and art' and be a redirect from indian art and indian culture). Any thoughts? --Pranathi 05:31, 6 May 2005

Holy Hell...

Someone tag this with a clean-up!

OR in the article?

Anyone care to explain how Pakistan was "influenced by the medieval Indo-Persian culture"? I just reverted it.[1] as Pakistan did not exist as a nation in the medieval period. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

India was also not present in its current form. At that time Pakistan and North India belonged to Delhi Sultanate. Am I wrong in this? --Dravidianhero (talk) 19:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

India has been around for thousands of years, it used to the land beyond the Indus. But if I recall correctly, Alexander the great popped in there, which I think was most certainly before the medieval period. But even as city states the country was there, Pakistan however is a new nation, so they cannot have been "influenced by the medieval Indo-Persian culture" which is just a silly suggestion. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:17, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Regardless of when Pakistan originated, content on which culture Pakistan was influenced by, that too in the lead, is beyond the scope of this article. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 19:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Isn't it a bit radical to exclude all other regions? such as Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. Can Culture be limited by national borders? I don't think so. However, I agree, that it could be left in the lead section.--Dravidianhero (talk) 19:34, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

You are right, culture cannot be limited by national borders. I was only making a limited point that this article need not cover the Culture of Pakistan which is an article by itself. Maybe, an article on Culture in South Asia could include a similar lead. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 19:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

No tribal culture section

Please add a section for tribal people with their specific customs and traditions.--Dravidianhero (talk) 12:49, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

No Bengali culture Photograph

Please post or try to add some bengali food items and specially the photos of bengali sweets and fish curry items.That will make the bengali's happy.Please try to mentain that Kolkata is said to be the cultural capital of India Anurag Chakraborty —Preceding undated comment added 12:36, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

OR: subcultural variations evolved mainly by contact with Muslim powers

The "evolved by mainly" Muslim powers claim in lede is original research, ignores nizams in Hyderabad which is hardly northern India. Punjabi Indian culture in the north is quite different than islamic culture. The second para of the lede also ignores the large Christian population in the south and their distinct culture. I studied the suggestions to lede over last 6 months by several editors; someone is giving undue emphasis to Muslim and north India without supporting such emphasis. Claiming no support necessary is inappropriate, see wp:v. Please provide a few respected scholarly support, at least on the talk page, for this "subcultural variations evolved mainly by contact with Muslim powers".

The lede should mention India's cultural diversity, without the original research whether the culture was "mainly" influenced by Muslim or British or whoever. Kiitos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.243.188.203 (talk) 11:35, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

First of all, the lead section shouldn't contain references if not necessary. In this case it's not necessary as we deal with the obvious. Here is a statement about Hindustani music and Muslim rulers, which you deleted without any comment: http://books.google.at/books?id=aMlKSmWRQ8cC&pg=PA40&dq=muslim+Hindustani+music&hl=en&sa=X&ei=go0zUaDrA8ff4QSFrYFI&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=muslim%20Hindustani%20music&f=falseandadddda and I must add that I find it quite irritating, when you say Punjabis were not influenced by Muslims when we see that most Punjabis are Muslims themselves living in Pakistan, a Muslim country.-- Dravidian  Hero  17:58, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

The book you cite does not state anywhere that "subcultural variations evolved mainly by contact with Muslim powers". Please identify the page number where it does. A mere discussion of music styles is not sufficient to make sweeping encyclopedic conclusions. The source must make the same or equivalent conclusion. On Punjabi Indian culture, there is no need to discuss Pakistan or some other country because it is obvious you are unaware of reality there; You are extrapolating your assumptions and concluding on your own something that reliable sources do not conclude. Instead of personal opinions, offer reliable sources that support your claim. Just identify one source that concludes "Punjabi Indian culture evolved mainly by contact with Muslims", or even "North Indian culture evolved mainly by contact with Muslims." Unless you can do so, please do not revert. See wiki policies @ wp:proveit. This wiki page is not your or anyone's personal blog. Kiitos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.243.188.203 (talk) 05:12, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Added another source regarding the intro sentence, which appears to be your main concern for whatever reason. And the next time you remove sourced content you will be reported for vandalism as books are generally per se reliable.-- Dravidian  Hero  12:13, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

and for clarification: the intro doesn't say anything about North Indian culture itself. It tells why these differences exist.-- Dravidian  Hero  12:24, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I have read the chapters in the two books you cite. These do not support the sweeping statement, or offer anything to support "subcultural variations evolved mainly by contact with Muslim powers." The Zakaria book is a primary source, and only discusses Hindu-Muslim unity (page 46), Muslim musicians adopting Indian classical music, and nothing about North India's music or cultural evolution. I repeat my request: identify the page number(s) that states "subcultural variations evolved mainly by contact with Muslim powers." Original research and synthesis are unacceptable. For help identifying reliable sources, see @ wp:rely http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources Kiitos, 213.243.188.203 (talk) 15:03, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't believe you read the source at page 28, the page I provided. I quote:"The early waves of Muslim invasion in Northwest India and the 12th-century establishment of the Delhi sultanate by Turkish Muslims introduced profound change in North Indian culture. Over the next 6 centuries the art, literature, religion and customs of Turkish, Persian and Central Asian cultures came to India with the artists and scholars of the Muslim courts. Historical records hint that for some time the Persian music of the courts thrived without any influence of India's musical culture." That certainly is very supportive for the intro sentence, which shouldn't be a 1 to 1 copy anyway per copyright issues. -- Dravidian  Hero  15:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

How does that quote from Allyn Miner support "subcultural variations evolved mainly by contact with Muslim powers?" Miner writes, "Persian music thrived without influence of India's musical culture" and later writes Persian court music evolved because of influences from Indian classical music, and makes no mention of subcultural variations or how North Indian culture mainly evolved. Consider page 29, para 2. Miner claims Bijapur (Deccan court) was an important center of Muslim court culture; Bijapur is in Karnataka - considered part of South India. Miner does not claim North or South India evolved mainly by contact with Muslim powers. Please provide a more relevant and direct support for verification of your sweeping claim. Kiitos, 213.243.188.203 (talk) 16:14, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

You repeat yourself over and over again, because of an intro, which is currently very well backed by an appropriate source. You are very emotionally attached to this topic, I suggest you edit something else.-- Dravidian  Hero  16:57, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Please assume good faith, and see wp:own. Help me locate the specific support for your sweeping claims. You are misrepresenting Allyn Miner and Zakaria references; even the #4 reference you just added, at page 17, does not support "South Indian culture developed largely independent of foreign influences." You can help me verify and reach consensus, or I can tag your citations as dubious/failed verification and we can take this to dispute resolution process @ wp:drn. I hope others who edit this page can mediate here avoiding the need for taking this to DRN. Kiitos, 213.243.188.203 (talk) 18:44, 4 March 2013 (UTC)