Talk:Gaiseric

Untitled

This is good, if a little breathlessly enthusiastic about the Vandals. Why is it 'Gaiseric' all the way through if the entry is under 'Geiseric'? Create a new one and redirect. I removed much 'fall of the Western Empire' language - specialists have tossed out that idea. Specifically, the article makes two weird mistakes that I removed - first, it had Geiseric doing well, and then 'only to see' the collapse of the Vandal kingdom after his death. I rewrote that. Second, it had: "and lived to see the fall of the western empire that he had bedeviled for a half-century." Even if one accepted the 'decline and fall' model (which I do not, and I have a Ph.D. in the period), Geiseric died in 477. Romulus Augustus was only deposed in 476, and in 477 no one had any way of knowing that there wouldn't be another widely recognized person holding the title of Emperor in the West until 800. MichaelTinkler

---

Geiseric is one of three accepted spellings for his name. Gaiseric is the one I most often see, but you also see Genseric a lot, as well as Geiseric. And some people say it doesn't mean "Caesar-king", but "spear-king". There's also some dispute about the year he was born; it was either 389, 390, 400 or 406. I went with Caesar and Gaiseric in the original, and since there are contemporary accounts that he died in his 87th year, that means either 389 or 390 is most likely correct. But who knows? That would make him 65 when he sacked Rome and 78 when he defeated Basilicus, and that seems rather old. He must have had whatever secret to youth that Narses had. John

---

I believe Geiseric should be pronounced as if it was/is spelled Gaiseric by native English speakers. That is how you'd naturally tend to pronounce Geiseric in German, as well as in Danish, anyhow. So there might be an inherent method to the madness. -A Dane

---

As a German, I'm not sure what you mean. Geiseric in German is usually spelt "Geiserich" (I don't distinctly remember a different spelling) following the trend in German historiography to write all Germanic rulers that end on -ricus in Latin as -rich. Now the "Gei" syllable in German would intuitively be pronounced like the English word "guy", as would "Gai" - there is no real difference in pronounciation between the two in German. Does anyone happen to know how either "Gaiseric" or "Geiseric" would be pronounced in classical Latin? And talking about that, what do most late Roman sources call him?

---

Agreed. 'Gei' is pronounced almost exactly as the english word 'guy', in German and in Danish. But when you write 'Gei' a native English speaker would (I believe) be more likely to pronounce it as 'gay', whereas 'Gai' to a native English speaker would tend to suggest 'guy', which seems more correct to both the German and Danish intuitive reading. That's all I was saying. -Same Dane

---

I've taken out the "Caesar-king" definition, as this is surely a folk etymology based on superficial similarity. I don't think there's any doubt in modern linguistic circles that the name should be interpreted as a native Vandal formation whose first element means "spear". Gerhard Koebler -- whose first name, coincidentally, contains the West Germanic variant of the word -- cites a number of parallels in his Gotisches Woerterbuch (Gothic Dictionary): Gaiswalds, Gesalacus, Gesimund, Gesiulf, Radagaisus, Unigis, ON Gesualdo [ http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/gotischeswoerterbuch/GOT-G.pdf ]. Both elements occur together elsewhere in Germanic, e.g. Old Norse 'Geirrekr' (Reykdæla saga). Similarly, the final element -ric appears independently in the names of other Vandal kings, and is another standard Germanic naming element. I'm not aware of any other Vandal names in which a Latin 'c' has been replaced by 'g', or how this could be explained in terms of known sound changes, or of any parallels among the Vandal royal names that would support the Caesar hypothesis. -- Dependent Variable.

---

Vandalic was an east-Germanic language, so Gothic spellings are probably more relevant than German ones. No offense. And in Gothic Gai- would sound more-or-less like English Guy- but Gei- would sound more like English Key- but with an initial G. 173.66.211.53 (talk) 01:17, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

"Rod of God"?

Is there any real source for this cognomen? The reference given is to an unsourced claim on someone's personal genealogy page, which also includes the false claim that Geiseric married Valentinian's widow. —Abou 02:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Something is wrong with this article

When Genseric took Carthage, we hear, the reasonable Genseric didn't bother much about the Catholics, he just let them be Catholics and went about the perfectly reasonable business of using the Roman fleet at Carthage to establish himself in the Mediterranean. He required of someone, we hear - his own regime? that they be Arians. The article does not really say who. Well, I dare say, the whole meaning of the word vandal must be a big mistake! With reasonable men like that in power, who would want to contend against them? The only trouble is, the article leaves out a few things, such as murder, torture, rape, exiles, executions, parades of nude, beaten and mutilated women through the streets and a few other minor affairs such as that. What are those bewteen us reasonable Germanics, is that the idea? He wasn't so bad. We wonder why Victor Vitensis ever bothered. What was all the furor? Maybe someone better start checking a few sources. I don't notice any in here. The furor! The furor!Dave (talk) 15:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

The Vandals did nothing in capturing Carthage that any invading army would not have done in the year 439. There was nothing notable or unusual about it. There was no such thing as a Geneva Convention or international law in the fifth century. In fact, by the standards of that era, the Vandals were not notably cruel in their victories and conquests. Did they persecute Catholics? Yes, but the Romans at that time were persecuting Arians, Manicheans, Monophysites, people who still followed Greco-Roman paganism, and basically anybody else who disagreed with whoever the Emperor was. Gaiseric did require that people in his government's service be Arian. So what? The Romans required they be Catholic, unless it was some mercenary chief with a lot of troops they couldn't do without. Jsc1973 (talk) 05:21, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Invasion of Rome

A book I've read states that Genseric invaded Tome because Petronius Maximus took Valentinian's duaghter Eudocia as his daughter-in-law even though she had been engaged to Genseric's son Huneric since age 5. In addition, though Genseric agree to Pope Leo's request of not burning down Rome and not partaking in massacre, the Vandals took thousands of prisoners and looted all of Rome.

Nardo, Don ed. "The End of Ancient Rome." Turning Points in World History. Green Haven Press, San Diego: 2001. pages 84-85 PakoPenguin (talk) 17:30, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

"Genseric"

I thought the form "Genseric" was thought to derive from manuscript corruptions, like "Jornandes" and "Odoacer"? 173.66.211.53 (talk) 01:18, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Why are Slavicised forms included?

Are they any more relevant than the usual English form (Gaiseric) or whatever the Spanish, Berber, and Arabic forms are? 173.66.211.53 (talk) 01:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Godzimirek or Gniewomirek are his slavic names, because we all know vendals and luzian sorbs and alans are slavic tribes. by deleting his names, they, "germans", try to change history. the same way as romans and greeks do.212.13.65.14 (talk) 12:22, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Removed wartime propaganda/pseudohistory

The "further reading" section listed Bigelow's Genseric: King of the Vandals and the First Prussian Kaisar, but I removed it because Gaiseric had nothing to do with Prussia and Bigelow is just so wrong about so much when making that connection. 173.66.211.53 (talk) 03:23, 27 April 2013 (UTC)