Talk:Screamo

Any pictures or music examples?

It's a shame that the emo article is so improved, and screamo article isn't. I think there should be at least few pictures and music examples. It's really a little weird that the sub-genre of emo isn't as improved as emo, or even more improved. Wikipedia and their users should work on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ETFFAN123 (talk • contribs) 09:55, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Electronic trend

Some users have been vandalizing this article by removing referenced information about the recent fusion of electronic music and screamo. This NEEDS TO STOP. Whether or not you like the trend is NOT what is under question here. One user stated that this whole "electronic trend" is based on "the misuse of the term 'screamo'". Contrarily, though, the inclusion of information about this recent electronic trend does not affect 'original' screamo (or 'real' screamo, or whatever you want to call it). Original screamo bands are still original screamo bands. But it would be a denial of reliable sources and of clear fact to say that modern screamo groups have not been influenced by electronic music. --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 23:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Electronic screamo, crunkcore, nintendocore

This article has really improved in the last year or so away from a distorted past, but I found this:

Some modern practitioners of screamo have been influenced by electronic music.[24][25] This fusion has been referred to as "electronicore", "synthcore", or "screamo-techno".[26][27] Sumerian Records notes that "there has been a surplus of "electronica/hardcore" music as of late."[28] Crunkcore and Nintendocore are two musical genres that have derived from screamo and electronic fusion.[29][30]

It was not discussed on this page before being added, for obvious reasons. Editors have repeatedly thought of it as vandalism yet it keeps reappearing without discussion. It seems as if a couple editors with an agenda or a habit of trolling are adding this even though it contradicts what the Screamo#Misuse_of_the_term_.22screamo.22 section says. There is already a sufficient amount of the same content about this misnomer on its correct pages post-hardcore#2000s and Hardcore_punk#Electronic_music. I have removed this until some editors come up with some sort of consensus. Remember: all because something screams does not make it screamo.Supahshadow (talk) 23:37, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate your concern. But there really is no valid excuse for removing referenced information. You're correct that just because something has screams doesn't make it screamo, but if something is reliably referenced as screamo, then that does make it screamo. You're also correct that a substantial amount of information on the topic exists at Hardcore punk#Electronic music. But since the trend does affect screamo, it is appropriate to include some of that information here. Maybe we can reach some sort of agreement? SOME information on this topic MUST remain on the page (ESPECIALLY the link to the two fusion genres in the infobox). However, based solely on your concerns, I would be willing to reach a consensus with you (although in truth, all of the information that was on this page was throughly referenced, and it should ALL stay). --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 23:45, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Much of the electronic influences stuff is being debated. However, crunkcore is very, very solidly sourced as a screamo-crunk fusion (actually, screamo-crunk is one of the names for it), and Nintendocore is also sourced as using screamo elements, so those two genres absolutely should stay. As for the rest, I don't really want to get involved, so I will let others fight it out.--3family6 (talk) 01:00, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The whole ordeal with electronically influenced genres has been debated for a while. Although, it really hasn't been a debate about whether or not the fusion exists, but more or less a debate about how notable it is. That's why the page I created (Electronically influenced hardcore) is being deleted (and rightfully so, I admit. The fusion is notable but not notable enough for its own page). There is enough information about the fusion to form a reliably referenced paragraph or two, but not a page. But it seems that a few users, like Supahshadow here, don't like there being any reference to the trend on Wikipedia. Anywho.. I've added tiny bits of appropriate information about the trend to the pages post-hardcore and screamo. The majority of the info is at Hardcore punk#Electronic music. I guess I just got ahead of myself by creating an entire article about the fusion, lol, but a paragraph or two on a couple pages is definitely appropriate. Since screamo is one of the genres affected, I don't see why this guy is upset that 2 or 3 sentences on the article talk about the fusion. --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 01:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I understand that there is a difference between "real screamo" and just using the term to describe any music with screaming. I don't want to upset the flow of this article or welcome editors to began adding references that refer to mislabelled screamo (and I understand that it's a fragile situation because SO many references exist that label SO many things screamo; it's rediculous). In light of that, I've simplified the information about the electronic fusion. Instead of saying that screamo bands have been influenced by electronic music, it simply says that some bands have been influenced by screamo and influenced by electronic music. I know there are very few "true" screamo bands, so I reworded the statement to apply to other bands, not direct representatives of the genre screamo. The genres Nintendocore and crunkcore ARE influenced by aspects of screamo, though. Although they may not be "derivatives" of screamo, some elements of screamo have influenced those styles. --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 14:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I would argue with you that bands labeled crunkcore, or nintendocore are influenced by any screamo bands or anything from screamo, and to reference bands like Enter Shikari, and I See Stars, as screamo plus electronic music would be incorrect. By having the bit at the bottom about crunkcore and nintendocore, you are promoting the misuse of the word screamo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.176.151 (talk) 00:19, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

The word screamo is NOT misused there. You seem to have a very narrow view of what screamo really is. Screamo is a derivative form of hardcore punk that is influenced by both emo and post-hardcore. There are many many modern examples of screamo. Of course, EVERYTHING with screaming isn't screamo. But a band that fuses hardcore punk, emotional connotation, and screamed vocals can rightly be referred to as screamo. Crunkcore and Nintendocore both have been influenced by screamo. Reliable references are reliable references; you can't just make up your own definition for screamo or remove true information because you don't like it.--♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 16:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Nah man, those bands are influenced by Post-Hardcore bands and electronic music, not screamo and electronic music. You're wrong! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.176.151 (talk) 20:14, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, reliable sources say otherwise. Sorry. --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 21:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Well "Reliable Sources" are wrong. Those sources that are saying "This music is influence by screamo" have the wrong idea about what screamo is also. If you were to ask Crunkcore bands, and Nintendocore bands, what influenced them to make the music they make, they wouldn't list of actual screamo bands. Sure they'd have post-hardcore bands maybe, and electronic music, and other -core bands. But seriously. They're not screamo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.176.151 (talk) 07:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Allmusic source

http://www.allmusic.com/explore/style/screamo-d13459 This is a WONDERFUL source about the history of screamo. I've added much of the info from there to the article. I would encourage everyone who edits screamo to check out the web page if they get a chance.

Disputed info

Some editors have heavily resisted the inclusion of referenced information. Apparently any discussion of Thursday (band) and related bands is a big NO NO here (I wasn't aware...). Anyways, Although referring to these bands as screamo may fringe on breaking the balance of "the misuse of the term screamo," it IS appropriate to cite that many such bands reflect some attributes of screamo. Considering that editors have ALSO disputed any inclusion of information about Nintendocore and crunkcore (two well referenced notable genres that derive some influence from screamo), I lumped all of this information into a section called "Influence on other styles." HOPEFULLY people will stop vandalizing this page by removing such information. By putting it in this section, readers will be able to differentiate 'original' screamo from these styles that are merely influenced by some aspects of screamo. --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 18:00, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I moved the info about Thursday and all of the other bands mentioned in allmusic back up to the "modern screamo" section, as there is NO reason it shouldn't be there unless third-party sources question the bands mentioned, and even then, only the bands that are challenged should be moved. I think the rest was a good move on your part, though crunkcore is an actual screamo fusion, and should be mentioned as such.--3family6 (talk) 19:26, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

You're right. I guess I was trying too hard to keep the peace with that other guy who kept vandalizing the page, lol. Referenced information is referenced information. --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 19:36, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I think one of the reasons for these problems is because screamo is a post-hardcore style, which explains bands like Thursday. I personally have almost no clue of how to distinguish one hardcore style from another, but I don't really need to because Wikipedia runs on sources.--3family6 (talk) 19:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes! That definitely explains much of the confusion. Also a lot of die-hard fans of old screamo and emotional hardcore bands have a hard time allowing any other modern groups to be defined as such. But references are references. According to the sources on the article (including the Allmusic source) screamo defines an abrasive style of hardcore punk and emo. I think this page has been under the strict control of those "die-hard", stubborn, fans who don't accept references for far too long. --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 20:07, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

There is a common thread in a lot of new genre names that I see in Wikipedia pages all the time, where various artists representative of the genre state that they don't consider themselves (whatever genre). As most genre names are not created by bands, but by journalists and fans, that a given artist doesn't consider themselves a given genre name is not factually useful or even relevant information. 69.244.155.82 (talk) 19:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Post-rock inflected Screamo

In the 'Influence on other styles' section, it says modern Screamo acts like Pianos Become The Teeth incorporated Post-Rock into Screamo but there was a lot more bands who had this sound before them. For example City of Caterpillar, Envy and Funeral Diner all played this sound in the very early 2000's. All these bands also have wikipedia pages with references to them have a post-rock influenced sound. I would change the part about Post-rock inflected Screamo myself but I thought I should go into discussions first. Rosscowderoy (talk) 09:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Good idea, and if in your source adding you happen to find a source for Pianos Become The Teeth then be my guest. Jonjonjohny (talk) 10:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

my addition to Influence on other styles

I have re-written the section "Influence on other styles". If there is any issues with what I have written please put it in this discussion before deleting pieces. Jonjonjohny (talk) 22:48, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Awesome job! I went in and corrected the grammar somewhat, though. --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 03:12, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the corrections, the second paragraph on crunk and nintendeo -core still needs aditional stuff I think, maybe a bit of electronicore since some sources say it's screamo influenced. But that is for another time. Jonjonjohny (talk) 09:01, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

3rd wave, revival History

I was looking about and there appears to be this source about pg.99 reforming and talks a little bit about "Skramz" (terrible term)/possible revival of screamo. It's obvious terms like screamo and emo dropped out of favour because of "mislabeling" by mtv and other mainstream sources because they essentially called post-hardcore bands screamo and labeled emotional alternative rock bands as emo. But once the terms dropped out of favour after being burnt out and access to underground music through the internet was easier, intrest in these screamo bands got revived. (basically the last 4-6 years) I'm just outlining it like this just to give outline to the idea of why there is revieved intrests, they talk about the break ups of Orchid and City of Caterpillar as being a reason for its death (from pg.99's perspective). There may be other sources but I was curious if there is other people out there who are intrested in writing somthing like this. Jonjonjohny (talk) 14:53, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

That looks great. Though it would be important to distinguish which statements are by the band and which ones by the NPR writer.--¿3family6 _contribs 15:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

It appears the unbolded statements at the start is the introduction from Lars Gotrich (the writer) while the unbolded statements after the bold are answers from the band members in the Q&A, and in turn all bold statements are from the Gotrich. Jonjonjohny (talk) 15:32, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Excellent source! I incorporated some of it into the section about the term's vagueness.--♪ ChrisBkoolio ... (Talk) 18:43, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

The Steez of Skramz

There was a source that was used on this page before from Something Awful. (Page 1Page 2) I was wondering why it was removed as it looks fairly useful. Is it not reliable? Jonjonjohny (talk) 13:56, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Somewhere, can't remember where, someone questioned the source due to the comedy nature of the piece.--¿3family6 _contribs 02:34, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Whats the difference between Metalcore, Hardcore Punk, and Screamo

Just wondering, please reply on my talk page using a basic explanation, because this has always confused me Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 16:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 16:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Answered on your talk page. --♪ ChrisBkoolio ... (Talk) 17:52, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Time for an overhaul?

I think it might be time to give this page a serious rewrite. The way it currently reads sounds like it was written in the mid-2000s, when a lot of (fairly clueless) media outlets had gotten into the habit of calling any post-hardcore band with screaming in it "screamo." It got so bad at one point that people actually start using "real screamo" or "skramz" to refer to actual screamo bands, because the "screamo" name had become so diluted and meaningless.

In retrospect, that was a very silly time in music, and most people familiar with the genre now realize that screamo has a much more complicated definition than "music with screaming in it." Post-hardcore is post-hardcore, and screamo is screamo. Orchid, Seatia, pg.99, etc. are screamo. Senses Fail, Underoath, and Alexisonfire (all bands cited in the current screamo article) are not. Unfortunately, they can't simply be deleted, because there's valid-ish citations of media outlets from a few years ago calling those bands "screamo."

Instead of the way it currently is, the article should be rewritten to reflect the fact that screamo is a fairly narrowly defined genre, but that there was a period in the mid-to-late-2000s when the term was conflated with post-hardcore and some metalcore. This allows the history of this mis-usage to remain intact, but distinguishes between this and what is truly meant by the term screamo.

I'd be willing to help out with this rewrite, but I'm not going to waste my time if people are going to revert it back to its current state because of decade-old citations from oblivious media outlets. Hence, I'm asking other editors what they think should be done. Thoughts? EznorbYar (talk) 01:53, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

So then what makes screamo different from other types of rock that have screaming in it? I think this is your starting point. If you get a good, reliable, authoritative source on what makes screamo screamo, then that would help your cause. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 04:00, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

This definitely needs an overhaul. There needs to be a distinction made between metalcore "screamo" and screamo that is influenced by 90's screamo.72.76.167.126 (talk) 00:07, 16 July 2013 (UTC)