Talk:David Harding (financier)

Speedy deletion

The article clearly states why the subject is notable. Hence CSD A7 does not apply. IN fact, the subject is notable for other reasons too, which will not doubt be added in due course. Stephen B Streater (talk) 20:42, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Oops - edits must have clashed without me noticing. Stephen B Streater (talk) 20:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Proposed article expansion

{{Request edit}} This article has remained essentially a stub for the two years of its existence, but it certainly could be much better. So, I aim to help with that. I've researched and assembled a substantially more complete article about Mr. Harding, and it's available for review here: User:WWB Too/David Harding (finance)

An important point of disclosure: I do so at the behest of Winton Capital Management, which Mr. Harding leads, just as I did with the Winton Capital article. As with that article, I would appreciate it very much if another editor could review my draft and offer suggestions and / or support for copying my version into place. This new version contains all of the same information and then plenty more, in line with WP:BLP, WP:MOSBIO and all relevant guidelines. I also seek to change the disambiguation from "(mathematician)" to "(finance)" per WP:DISAMBIG, and because it's a little more germane.

I hope you will agree this is a better version, and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask, either here or on my Talk page. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 17:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Okay, the move is already done. In a few minutes I will check your new draft and if it is okay, I will "move it". mabdul 11:39, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Sounds great. I'll be near-ish the computer most of today, so I'm happy to answer any questions if need be. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 14:32, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Okay I went ahead and "merged" the two articles. Great work, sorry for the delay! As you can see, I tagged the lead two times with [citation needed] and I want a small clarification what Sabre is (a wikilink is ok, even a redlink if that company(?) has no wikipedia article), since I don't know it. mabdul 17:04, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Updates for this article

Greetings; as one will see in the discussion above, I was involved in expanding this article in late 2011 on behalf of David Harding's company, Winton Capital Management. Recently, Winton has asked me to help facilitate some updates to this article to reflect recent events. I am looking for an editor to review and implement the following suggestion, assuming there is consensus for them. Because of my paid COI, I will not be editing this article directly.

• David Harding's position at Winton has changed since this article was last updated. I would like to suggest that the second sentence of the first paragraph of the Winton Capital Management section be replaced with the following:

Updated career information

As of 2013 he is the president and majority owner.

References

Markup

As of 2013 he is the president and majority owner.<ref name=Hallam>{{cite news |title=Goldman Partner to Help Raise Funds for Crick Institute |author=Kristen Hallam |url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-22/goldman-partner-to-help-raise-funds-for-crick-institute.html |work=[[Bloomberg L.P.|Bloomberg]] |date=22 April 2013 |accessdate=29 April 2013}}</ref>

• I have also prepared an expanded version of the final paragraph (currently only one sentence) of the Winton Capital Management section based on recent articles about David Harding's tax payments; please note the new material is highlighted in yellow immediately below, while the paragraph's full text (including the existing sentence) appears in the markup below it:

Updated tax information

In 2010, he was London's highest paid earner at £60m a year. In September 2012, Harding was listed at number one on The Independent's list of "Britain's biggest taxpayers" and received favourable media coverage for revealing that he had paid £34 million in tax on his £87m income.

References

Markup

In 2010, he was London's highest paid earner at £60m a year.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315366/David-Harding-Citys-highest-earner-60m-year.html|title=Rambler with an interest in Bible studies is the City's highest earner on £60m a year|publisher=Daily Mail|accessdate=19 March 2013}}</ref> In September 2012, Harding was listed at number one on ''The Independent'''s list of "Britain's biggest taxpayers"<ref>{{cite news |title=The business elite who prove that you can be rich and play fair |author= |url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-business-elite-who-prove-that-you-can-be-rich-and-play-fair-8166711.html |work=The Independent |date=24 September 2013 |accessdate=29 April 2013}}</ref> and received favourable media coverage for revealing that he had paid £34 million in tax on his £87m income.<ref name=Hellen>{{cite news |title=Rich man pays his taxes — shock |author=Nicholas Hellen |url=http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1137210.ece |work=[[The Sunday Times]] |date=30 September 2013 |accessdate=29 April 2013}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Hedge fund founder David Harding reveals £34m tax bill |author=Matthew Sparkes |url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9576928/Hedge-fund-founder-David-Harding-reveals-34m-tax-bill.html#mm_hash |work=The Telegraph |date=30 September 2012 |accessdate=29 April 2013}}</ref>

I hope someone is interested in helping with these two requests. Also, just a heads up, I am currently working on some additional revisions to this article to correct a few typos I've spotted and to address the tags in the introduction. I'll be presenting that here after the above is resolved. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 17:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi, yes I can help out. I'll go back through you notes and review the source info.--CaroleHenson (talk) 06:58, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

1. Regarding: "As of 2013 he is the president and majority owner." -- The article doesn't say that he's majority owner, nor that he was president as of 2013.

• So, I worded the first sentence of the intro: David Winton Harding is a British businessman, founder and president of Winton Capital Management.<ref name=Hallam />
• And, added to the Winston Capital Management Section: In 2011 Harding was the the founder, chairman and head of research of Winton Capital Management.<ref name="fundjournal">{{Cite web|url=http://www.thehedgefundjournal.com/magazine/200509/interviews/simon-kerr-talks-to-david-harding.php|accessdate=23 October 2011|title=Winton Capital Management Simon Kerr talks to David Harding|first=Simon|last=Kerr|publisher=[[The Hedgefund Journal]]|month=September|year=2005}}</ref>
• The next sentence in that section: By April 2013, he was made president of the organization.<ref name=Hallam>{{cite news |title=Goldman Partner to Help Raise Funds for Crick Institute |author=Kristen Hallam |url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-22/goldman-partner-to-help-raise-funds-for-crick-institute.html |work=[[Bloomberg L.P.|Bloomberg]] |date=22 April 2013 |accessdate=6 June 2013}}</ref>--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:27, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

2. Regarding: In September 2012, Harding was listed at number one on The Independent's list of "Britain's biggest taxpayers" -- the article does have him listed as #1, but that seems to be based upon his income, not that he was the number 1 biggest taxpayer (although that seems entirely likely). Because the list did not have an introductory statement that the order on the list was based upon the amount of paid taxes - and the blurb about Harding and others only mentioned income, I think it would be a more accurate reflection of the article information to say that he was on the list of "Britain's biggest taxpayers" and readers can refer to the article and make their own judgment.--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

3. Regarding: and received favourable media coverage for revealing that he had paid £34 million in tax on his £87m income. - Within an intention of being objective and letting readers sort out the news, I just reworded that slightly - removing the part about receiving favourable media coverage. Instead: Within 6 days, Harding revealed that "he was paying £34 million in tax on his £87m income."<ref name=Hellen>{{cite news |title=Rich man pays his taxes — shock |author=Nicholas Hellen |url=http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1137210.ece |work=[[The Sunday Times]] |date=30 September 2013 |accessdate=6 June 2013}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Hedge fund founder David Harding reveals £34m tax bill |author=Matthew Sparkes |url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9576928/Hedge-fund-founder-David-Harding-reveals-34m-tax-bill.html#mm_hash |work=The Telegraph |date=30 September 2012 |accessdate=6 June 2013}}</ref>

Hi Carole, thanks much for taking a look at these. I'm generally fine with the changes you made in the article and have just a couple of suggested modifications, which I'll explain below:

1. First, regarding the ranking from The Independent, the tagline of the article is "Britain's biggest taxpayers" and then Mr. Harding is listed at number 1, which I feel is fairly unambiguous in support of a statement that he was ranked first by The Independent. If you think an additional source is would be helpful to clarify, then this separate article, also from The Independent, states "The Independent's tax list is headed by David Harding, the Cambridge-educated physicist who founded Winton Capital, the world's largest hedge fund..."

2. The change in the article lede looks fine, but in the Winton Capital Management section, I'd like to suggest that the line "As of 2011 he is the chairman and head of research, and the majority owner" be replaced entirely, since the sources there are actually from 2007 and 2008. The most recent source I have for him being the majority owner is from January 2012, so here's what I think this sentence should say:

As of 2012 he was the firm's majority owner, and as of 2013 is its president.

The new line "As of April 2013, he became the organization's president" isn't quite right—while the source I provided is from April 2013 to show that he is now the firm's president, it doesn't say that he had just taken on that role, and I believe that he became president earlier than April. I think it would be best to remove this and just include the above proposed sentence.

If these changes seem reasonable, would you be able to update the article? Also, I mentioned above that where there are two citation needed tags in the introduction, the details are actually included in the article, so I believe these can be removed. Would you mind making that edit, too? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:16, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, changes made. Cheers!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Very cool, thank you! WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:41, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Carole, I just realized that the Winton Capital Management section still includes the following statement: "As of 2011 he is the chairman and head of research, and the majority owner." Problem is, the sources given for this sentence are from 2008 and 2007, so that can't be so. Meanwhile, the information is also repeated later in the section—in the penultimate paragraph this information is given, supported by an appropriate source from 2011. Would you mind removing this first sentence? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 15:45, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

 Done. I have had an inkling feeling that there might be more edits needed. It seems like you're doing a review of the article to previously used source material, which sounds like a great idea!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

A few more suggestions

Now that the tags were resolved following the above discussion, I have just a few minor changes to follow up with. The remaining suggestions are to fix typos or slightly alter the text for clarity. I'm open to discussing any of these, if there's a difference of views:

1. The first sentence of the Education and career section contains an unnecessary comma. I would suggest removing the first comma found following the word "physics".
2. In the final sentence of this same section, I would suggest adding in "a futures brokerage" before Johnson Matthey & Wallace to explain what this company was.
3. In the second sentence of the Investment management section it should be clarified that Harding became head of Man's Quantitative Research Division, not AHL's.
4. In the Winton Capital Management section I suggest adding in "investment management firm" in the very first sentence before "Winton Capital Management". Also the comma at the end of this sentence should be replaced with a period.
5. The second paragraph of this section begins "The firm..." however "firm" should be replaced with "fund". The firm and the fund are not the same thing and this sentence is referring to the Winton Futures Fund which was launched in 1997 with $1.6 million in assets. It was not Winton Capital that was launched with these assets.

These are all of the suggestions I have for this article. Again, I'm happy to answer any questions about what I've presented here. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:50, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Comments:

1.  Done
2. If you find a citation where I can view the source info, I'll put it in. Is it a tad redundant, based upon his position?
3. I think you meant 3rd sentence of the 2nd paragraph of the Investment management section. I understand, I interpreted "its" to mean AHL. I cannot read the source information. Can you either provide a link to the source info - or give me a link that says that he was made head of "Man's..."?
4.  Done
5.  Done. Cheers!--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:31, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, and I like your replies format. I'll see what I can find for publicly available sources, or quote, and see what you thin. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 01:09, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Carole, I've had a chance to look into your two questions I think the following will be helpful regarding the two open questions:

• For the clarification of the company Johnson Matthey & Wallace: I was able to find this American Metal Market source from 1986 which describes the company as a "futures brokerage" subsidiary, however if you still feel this is too redundant I am OK with leaving the sentence as is.
• For the clarification of which firm Harding was head of the Quantitative Research Division: Yes, you are correct. I had meant the 2nd paragraph, not sentence as I mistakenly wrote. I was able to find the full text of the FOW source. Does that link work for you? In the article it says:

He then headed a unit called Man Quantitive Research that was seperate [sic] from AHL. However, he soon realised the partnership was not as friutful [sic] as it once was and so left to set up Winton.

Let me know if you have any further questions? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:28, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

 Done If you have any more additions, do you mind formatting the citation information? That was really helpful! Cheers.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:42, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Carole, these changes look great to me. I just noticed one last thing that needs to be fixed in the article: in the introduction AHL is called Adams, Harding and Lueck, however, the firm's correct name (as used later in the article) is Adam, Harding and Lueck. Would you be able to update this for me? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 15:01, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Sure, done.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:16, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Terrific, thanks. And I've just marked the request-edit template as "answered". WWB Too (Talk · COI) 16:46, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Great! My pleasure, great working with you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:04, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

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