Talk:United States Air Force Thunderbirds

50th anniversary date

After realizing I braincramped on the 50th anniversary date, it was clear that the "celebrates this year" was inappropriate. After all, if the DoD shuts them down next week (governments are known to do this sort of thing after all :-) ), then the article becomes misleading. If the actual 50th anniversary event is interesting in some way, then we can add description of what happened there. Stan Shebs 22:16 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

That's true. Probably a good idea to leave it out for now. Hephaestos 22:20 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

Oh, and thank you for the other improvements! Hephaestos

You figure Out My Cryptic Note

Please see the discussion at talk:Thunderbird_(disambiguation). - UtherSRG 20:16, 10 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Looking For Someone Else To Do My Work

OK, the '16s are lovely, but, it's a T-birds page, so how 'bout some of their historic aircraft, like, say, F-84, F-100, T-38? Trekphiler 20:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

On another note, can we do a jet demonstration teams page? Just tracking dn the Golden Hawks was a bit of a trial... Trekphiler 20:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Link to Pete Peterson

I think that the link for "Pete Peterson" who was part of the "Diamond crash" points to the wrong person. —the preceding unsigned comment is by Bob Collins (talk • contribs) 13:20, December 9, 2005

I fixed it --rogerd 18:53, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Images

Is it just me that thinks there are too many images in the article? Some of them should be removed or placed inside <gallery> tags. kallemax 19:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Heh, yeah, that is a lot. My rule of thumb is that the ideal is to have an average of one illustration visible at any one time - no all-text screenfuls, particularly not for such a visual subject. The images should be a little smaller, and the less-good ones gathered into a gallery at the end (even better would be commons, but that's a bunch of re-uploading). Stan 22:14, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

So be bold and make the changes you deem appropriate! I've organized the images on the page, so take a look and make sure I did an ok job. ~MDD4696 23:00, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Mountain Home Air Force Base

Shouldn't there be any reference to the 2004 incident at Mountain Home Air Force Base? Also, the two images in the history section do seem to have the correct text. --rxnd ( t | € | c ) 16:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

List Of Fatalities Not Complete

The list of fatalities is not complete. Captain Nick Hauwk (I'm not sure of the spelling) was killed when his plane stalled during a low speed pass in the 1981 season at a air show. My brother was one of the pilots killed during the 82 crash. I would edit the main page but I don't remember the details.Dick Mays

Robert Fitzgerald link

Link to Major Robert Fitzgerald in fatalities section pointed to evidently wrong person. I removed the link, while as far as I can see, we have no article on the correct man. I hope it was the right thing to do. 83.29.244.78 13:04, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Nonsense phrase under "Accidents"?

The Accidents section contains the following sentence.

On 1958-10-09 14 men aboard the Thunderbirds support C-123 perished in a crash 50 miles NW of Boise, Idaho while transiting an airshow.

The phrase "while transiting an airshow" implies that they were passing through the airspace of an airshow at the time of the accident. I suspect that is not correct. Can someone confirm whether this accident occurred while enroute to an airshow, enroute from an airshow, or enroute between airshows? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tedd (talk • contribs) 22:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Fixed it. Joe Hepperle (talk) 18:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

September 1981 Crash Info Incorrect Maybe

I think the description of the September 8, 1981 crash may be incorrect. I seem to recall that he did eject, but was too low and was killed falling to the breakwall at Burke airport in Cleveland. I have no reference, and 26 year-old memories may be faulty. 68.99.53.199 03:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

132.58.234.102

This user seems to be adding blatant advertisment. The user is registered from the base used by the Thunderbirds - so I reckon someone there is promoting them through this article. Can someone else look at this? --Richardwhiuk (talk) 23:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I didn't see what it was that you were referring to in the article but the Thunderbirds aren't really a business so how could they be advertising? —ASPENSTI—TALK—CONTRIBUTIONS 21:18, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Aspensti, they are effectively part of the recruiting arm of the Air Force, so they do make advertising to "sell" their "product": recruiting people. That said, I'm not seeing where there's a problem either, but this comment was made 3.5 years ago; it's likely already been fixed. Buffs (talk) 02:45, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Citations Needed

wow talk about a need of references. No citations in history or in incidents, only 2 in-line citations. Please consider adding the citations needed banner to head of article.--Sparkygravity (talk) 16:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopedia or titillating newspaper?

Just like hearing vulgarities in church, I was shocked and horrified to read the following in this Wikipedia article:

"To the shock and horror of the onlookers, Stricklands aircraft failed to complete the maneuver and instead smashed into the ground less than 500 yards from spectators. "It was really quiet," remembers M D, who saw the crash first hand. "Nobody said a word until we saw the pilot stand up. Everyone shouted 'he got out! he got out!' he got out at the last second."

This is just one of several sections that read like a sensationalized newspaper article. The section should only say, "Strickland's aircraft failed to complete the maneuver and instead smashed into the ground less than 500 yards from spectators."

And who is M D? A Wikipedia editor looking for his 15 minutes of fame by listing himself as a "shocked onlooker" with a comment to make? Even if not, "M D's" comments have no place here. They add absolutely nothing to the article.

After all, Joe Hepperle, who saw the crash, said, "The fireball was big! It was real big!" and you don't have that "quote" in here.

N.B Joe Hepperle did not see the crash and was nowhere near at the time. The above claim about Joe Hepperle and his comments on the crash are meant as a demonstration analogy to (analogously demonstrate ?) why "...shock and horror of the onlookers..." and "M D" and his alleged comments have no place in this Wikipedia article.

Since most of this article is not referenced, there is no way to view the original citations to determine a correct way to rewrite this section. Joe Hepperle (talk) 16:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

A lot less time and effort, and a lot more civility, could have been accomplished just by editing the article.--Reedmalloy (talk) 05:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Show schedule needed?

Is the show schedule needed? I think that there should maybe be a link to the show schedule. Any thoughts? 66.239.250.209 (talk) 20:22, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Accidents Section NPOV

Accidents section

The section on accidents emphasizes that there have only been two fatalities at air shows. But the list below it shows three. Then the list below that shows the death of one pilot, which was already mentioned in both the airshows list, and the text above that. -Freekee (talk) 20:23, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

The accidents section has Captain Hauck's name misspelled. It is misspelled Hauk and should be correctly "Hauck." His family would greatly appreciate if this could be corrected. Havoc medic (talk) 13:33, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Missing Crash

The article doesn't mention the March 18, 1973 F-4 Phantom crash at Holloman AFB, NM. Capt. Mike "Rip" Blaisdell safely ejected. I saw it happen, but don't know how to reference it to Wikipedia standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.191.150.241 (talk) 06:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

NPOV Tagg

This section especially compared to similar section on Blue Angels article appear to need NPOV check as the tone appears to attempt to mitigate instead of just document.0pen$0urce (talk) 21:42, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

0pen$0urce, "....the tone appears to attempt to mitigate instead of just document". You need to describe what information this section downgrades or ignores. Please add specific details to allow improvements, or remove the tag. Tnx: HarryZilber (talk) 18:35, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

File:USAF Thunderbird Diamond Formation.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:USAF Thunderbird Diamond Formation.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 27 September 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 18:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Christopher R. Stricklin -- Pilot for 2003 Split-S Crash -- CO of 49 FTS

Here is a link to the bio for Lieutenant Colonel Christopher R. Stricklin, who as a Captain piloted the F-16 which crashed on September 14, 2003. On 18 June 2010 he became the commander of the 49th Fighter Training Squadron. There is currently probably too little information about the crash in this article to merit an indication that it did not bring his career to an end, though it makes for a nice coda. -- 110.49.251.173 (talk) 14:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Meaning and context of "Fastest"

Editor Jensener (talk · contribs) refers to the Thunderbirds as "the Fastest Flying Jet Team in the world." We need a reliable citation to verify this, because the context and meaning are unclear. Other aerobatic teams operate the MiG-29 (comparable), Su-27 (faster) or F/A-18 (comparable at low altitudes where aerobatic typically happen), or have previously operated comparable or faster aircraft. Is this a marketing slogan, or an actual claim meant to be factual? Since you put it in boldface title case, do you mean to imply that this is an alternate name for the team? Either way, I'm removing it for now. Please provide a citation if you put it back into the article, and/or discuss it further on this talk page. TheFeds 22:33, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Insets or gallery—not both, and too many similar pictures in general

Numerous pictures are duplicated in the gallery and the insets. This is not valuable, especially given the link to a Commons category where some of these, and many similar images can also be found. Moreover, there are too many pictures of various closely related activities, many with somewhat saccharine captions. We should prune those a little bit. Any other opinions on this matter, before I set about making relevant modifications? TheFeds 06:36, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Hearing none opposed, I'll go ahead and make the change. TheFeds 05:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Notablility - first female pilot

The paragraph describing the first female Thunderbirds demonstration pilots has been removed several times. On each of the occasions, the reason given has been lack of notability. Given how much the appointments were covered in the press, the topic seems to meet every requirement for notability. I've reinstated the text.

The contribution histories of the IPs used for the edits, 68.227.222.230 and 38.100.50.158, show the removal of several other 'first female to ...' mentions in other articles. See also: 98.169.124.201, 98.169.115.189, 68.100.242.247.

--QWw (talk) 05:15, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Missing Oct. 20, 1967 crash.

Article from "Aviation Week & Space Technology : Contrails", unknown date (resumed recent), posted on this forum site: http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169272
USAF General Merrill A. (Tony) McPeak On ' Jerking The Wings Off ' An F-100.
Hopefully someone can find article info and make addition to Wiki. Flightsoffancy (talk) 19:32, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 April 2013

There's a typo in Demonstration Routine, 5th para., 1st sent.: "...by doing maneuver such as fast passes,..." (maneuver vs. maneuvers) 50.53.161.197 (talk) 15:29, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

 Done EricSerge (talk) 18:48, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Focus of article and possible split: historical vs. contemporary

I'm not sure the new material on the history of the squadron as a bomber unit is terribly relevant to the actual history of the Thunderbirds. The USAF administratively reassigning the lineage of a bomber squadron so as to backdate the squadron's founding seems to be an exercise in pencil-whipping, because that history had nothing to do with the exploits of the people or aircraft of the already-extant 4520th. Wouldn't a split better focus this article on the real Thunderbirds, and we can use the new material to do the bombers (and WWI fighters) justice in their own article? (Use hatnotes etc. freely to link the two where appropriate.) TheFeds 06:35, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Done Bwmoll3 (talk) 23:15, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Looks great—especially now that the 30th's article has a picture of a bomber at the top! TheFeds 04:20, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 29 July 2013

There's a typo in "History". The section before the "F-16 Era" section should be "T-38 Talon era". It is currently incorrectly labeled as T-33.

Completed :) Bwmoll3 (talk) 16:27, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

In 1947, while the jet age was still in its infancy, military aviation was hurtled into the future with the creation of the U.S. Air Force as a separate service. Just six years later, on May 25, 1953, the Air Force’s official air demonstration team, designated the 3600th Air Demonstration Unit, was activated at Luke Air Force Base, Ariz. The unit adopted the name “Thunderbirds,” influenced in part by the strong Native American culture and folklore from the southwestern United States where Luke Air Force Base is located.

Seven officers and 22 enlisted were selected for the first demonstration team. Major Dick Catledge, a training squadron commander at Luke AFB, was chosen as the team’s leader. Twins Bill and Buck Pattillo were selected and flew the left and right wing, respectively. The Pattillos, both captains, were ideal choices as both had flown with a demonstration team for the previous three years. For the difficult position of slot, the position sandwiched between both wingmen and behind the leader, Capt. Bob Kanaga was selected. The spare pilot was Capt. Bob McCormick. Like the Pattillo brothers, he also had demonstration team experience. First Lieutenant Aubry Brown served as the maintenance officer for the team. Lieutenant Brown, along with Master Sgt. Earl Young, selected 21 enlisted men to help maintain the team’s aircraft. Captain Bill Brock was the final officer selected for the team. He served as the information officer and team narrator.

From these humble beginnings and this group of men, the Air Force Thunderbird legend was born.

The team flew and maintained the F-84G Thunderjet. The straight-wing configuration of the F-84G was considered well suited for aerobatic and demonstration maneuvers, though the aircraft could not exceed the speed of sound.

A series of formation aerobatics, lasting a total of 15 minutes, comprised the original demonstration. The “solo” was not originally incorporated into the demonstration, however, as the season progressed, the team took opportunities to perform “solo” maneuvers with a spare aircraft.

Always trying to display the most advanced fighters of the age, the swept-wing F-84F Thunderstreak became the team’s new aircraft in 1955.

After one season in the F-84F Thunderstreak, the Thunderbirds traded aircraft again and became the world’s first supersonic aerial demonstration team as it transitioned to the F-100C Super Sabre in 1956. That same year, to simplify logistics and maintenance for the aircraft, the Thunderbirds moved to Nellis AFB, Nev. Although never a regular part of the show, the solo would fly supersonic at the request of an air show sponsor in 1956. Eventually, the Federal Aviation Administration banned all supersonic flight at air shows, and consequently, today’s sequence is entirely subsonic.

Nearly forgotten, the F-105B Thunderchief performed only six shows between April 26 and May 9, 1964. Following an unfortunate accident in the F-105, the team transitioned back to the Super Sabre following the incident and the F-100 remained with the team for nearly 13 years.

The Thunderbirds started the 1969 training season still in the F-100Ds, but in the spring of 1969, received the first of the new McDonnell Douglas F-4E Phantom IIs and began the team’s conversion.

The F-4’s conversion was the most extensive in the team’s history. Among several other modifications, the paint scheme changed due to the variations in chemicals, which allows paint used on the F-4 to resist heat and friction at Mach II speeds. As a result, the white paint base was developed and remains a part of today’s Thunderbird aircraft design.

In 1974, a spreading fuel crisis inspired a new aircraft for the team, the T-38A Talon. Although the Talon did not fulfill the Thunderbirds tradition of flying front-line jet fighters, it did demonstrate the capabilities of a prominent Air Force aircraft.

Remaining true to its character to showcase the latest advancement in America’s fighter technology, the first red, white and blue F-16A assigned to the Thunderbirds was delivered to Nellis AFB on Jun. 22, 1982. Due to the conversion to the new aircraft, there were no official shows flown in 1982. The team flew the F-16 during the 1983 show season; making it the team’s ninth aircraft and once again returning to flying a front-line fighter.

In 1997, the Thunderbirds performed 57 demonstrations for more than 12 million people in the spirit and theme of the Air Force’s 50th anniversary. The year was memorialized with the Thunderbirds Delta pictured on the official Air Force 50th Anniversary U.S. Postal stamp. On Sept. 18, 1997, the United States Postal Service had official unveilings of the stamp in both the Pentagon and the Thunderbird hangar.

The Thunderbirds made television history in 2003 while celebrating their 50th Anniversary. The commander/leader started the Coca-Cola 600 by broadcasting live from Thunderbirds No. 1 as he said, “Gentlemen, start your engines.”

In 2007, the Thunderbirds visited Europe for the first time since Sept. 11, 2001 with the European Goodwill Tour. The trip included shows in Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy, France, United Kingdom, and for the first time in Thunderbirds history, Ireland.

The team took its fifth Far East tour during the 2009 show season. The team’s tour included visits to Hawaii, Australia, Thailand, Guam, Malaysia, Japan and Korea. The team performed more than 70 shows in 22 states and Puerto Rico in 2009.

The team’s 59th show season included stops in Alaska and Canada, plus dozens more. During the 2013 season, the team will spend more than 200 days on the road while celebrating its 60th anniversary.

Millions of people have witnessed the Thunderbirds demonstrations, and in turn, they’ve seen the pride, professionalism and dedication of hundreds of thousands of Airmen serving at home and abroad. Each year brings another opportunity for the team to represent those who deserve the most credit: the everyday, hard-working Airmen voluntarily serving America and defending freedom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.27.146.46 (talk) 14:49, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

There's some duplicate text at the beginning of the F-16 era section - can't fix it myself as editing appears to be disabled. 99.88.5.242 (talk) 04:59, 7 May 2014 (UTC)John