Talk:Wolf Hall (TV series)

Anti Catholicism

The section on anti Catholicism is hysterical. Come on people, get a grip. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.29.173 (talk) 18:07, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

There is far too much prominence given in this article about "anti-Catholicism". Based not on independent verification, but quotes from a number of Catholic clergyman. The whole section make me uneasy and I've suggest we remove - or otherwise clean up significantly. If people think there is genuine grounds to make a claim about anti-Catholicism then can I suggest that it be covered in the article covering the two novels by Mantel instead? Unless, that is, someone can point to details in the TV series that are absent from the novels and which present a particularly "anti-Catholic" position. A read of the section otherwise suggests a fair amount of synthesis and conjecture. It starts of by making the claim that Mantel is anti-Catholic to set the scene, and then includes quotes from a mix of clergymen and bishops to try to support this initial claim. Problem is that the material doesn't really refer to Catholicism - for example some of it talks about Thomas More and the education of his children. It's all rather a bit rambling and repetitive. Thanks. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:35, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Panther306 (talk) 15:42, 2 April 2015 (UTC) There is no such thing as "too much prominence" given to any aspect of a debate, in fact the prominence of information simply reflects a particular interest in that aspect, which is precisely the function of a wiki. There is also no possibility for "independent verification" for a particular perspective as a wiki functions to reflect its user's perspectives, some of which will have more support in literature than others, and many of which are materially subjective.

On the nature of anti-Catholicism, it is entirely proper to reflect the voices of many media figures, who have almost unanimously suggested bias in the novel and dramatisation of Wolf Hall. It goes without saying that this feeling of misrepresentation, which comes from historians and clergy alike, should be highlighted to readers. This confusion is evidenced by the fact that on the Wolf Hall novel wiki, one of the first messages is from a foreign user who is surprised that Thomas More is described in a way that disregards history.

The fact that the user above me feels "uneasy" after reading suggests their perspectives are being fundamentally challenged. Panther306 (talk) 15:42, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Panther306 (talk) 16:13, 2 April 2015 (UTC) In an attempt to clean up the section, I've removed the quotes that were 'lumped in' with the original first paragraph (those from Catholic Bishops). This is mainly because it is poor editing and makes for difficult reading if several quotes are presented immediately after one another. I also question whether opinions from clergy belong in this debate, as distinct from historians/journalists, as the controversy surrounding Wolf Hall is mainly one of historical accuracy, not religion. For that reason I've also removed the quote from Mark Easton(?) of the Guardian as he was simply replying to the Bishops's quotes, and not to the matter of historical accuracy itself.

That said, if others wish to present new quotes from any perspective, may I suggest they be presented the way the current quotes are arranged to assist readers. Panther306 (talk) 16:13, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with having my perspectives challenged. I've studied the Tudor period in great depth and appreciate it to be a highly nuanced period - particularly in terms of religious belief. I've also watched the TV series and I really find it hard to agree that there's much - if anything - in it that is "anti-Catholic". Cardinal Wolsey (a Catholic cardinal) comes across as a pleasant old man and Thomas Cromwell (as portrayed) obviously loves and respects him. There is very, very little religious debate in the entire 6 episodes. Where the problem hinges is on Thomas More it seems. I'm aware that the Catholic Church canonized him a saint (in the 20th century) and that this had as much to do with political expediency than historical accuracy (it was a period when the Catholic church was trying to re-establish itself in England and needed respectable figures drawn from the establishment). Yes, I'm aware that More was a learned man and encouraged his daughters to read. But he was also a deeply conservative figure who was prepared to hunt down and torture those suspected of heresy. He was instrumental, for example, in the death of Wycliff who had tried to publish the bible in English. While I therefore accept the claims that the novel and series use poetic licence to make Cromwell seem sympathetic; I am not yet persuaded that it is vehemently "anti-Catholic" to the point of wilful prejudice. If you believe it is then please make the case. I'm not against a reference but I'd rather it short and to the point. Contaldo80 (talk) 08:58, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

episode synopsis

• theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/series/wolf-hall-episode-by-episode

Please add episode-by-episode synopsis. This article needs this more than most! The episodes are quite difficult to understand just by watching, what is really happening, what it means...-71.174.183.177 (talk) 02:23, 22 April 2015 (UTC)