User talk:Timtrent

Messages for Fiddle Faddle and for Timtrent should be left here. This is the home account for Fiddle Faddle, which is both my nickname and my alternate account. When you begin a new message section here, I will respond to it here. When I leave message on your Talk page, I will watch your page for your response. This maintains discussion threads and continuity. See Help:Talk page#How to keep a two-way conversation readable. If you want to use {{Talkback}} to alert me about messages elsewhere, please feel free to do so.

It is 7:52 AM where this user lives. If it's the middle of the night or during the working day they may well not be online

I do not remove personal attacks directed at me from this page. If you spot any, please do not remove them, even if vile, as they speak more against the attacker than against me.

In the event that what you seek is not here then it is archived (0.9 probability). While you are welcome to potter through the archives the meaning of life is not there.

can you look at this artice and edit it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roblox — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samal10124 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I can. Why do I want to? Fiddle Faddle 21:34, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Its Wrong — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samal10124 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Samal10124: So, correct it. I have no knowledge of the organisation nor interest in it. Fiddle Faddle 15:37, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

02:27:03, 5 May 2015 review of submission by Librariegrrl

• Librariegrrl (talk · contribs)
  • User:Librariegrrl/Chris "Woody" Wood (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I added a bunch more References. I didn't format them perfectly (that's why I didn't "re-submit" yet) because I wanted to check with you first to see if I gave enough info to correct my initial error. It seems obvious that if Bastille (band) is notable because of winning awards and charting, then each member of the four-piece deserves individual recognition as well. I didn't know how to elaborate on Chris Wood's contributions without repeating everything in the Bastille (band) main article or the Bas Blood (Bastille album) article.

I really would like your help because if I can get this right, then I can add an article about Kyle Simmons (the 4th Bastille member). For some reason, the article on Will Farquarson was approved. I basically used that article as the basis of my Chris Wood article, but it was still rejected. This makes me think that you should review the Will Farquarson article also so that I understand why he wasn't A7'd and Woody was.

Librariegrrl (talk) 02:27, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

@Librariegrrl: There is a little tool in the eft hand margin, reFill. I used it to format the references. I turned OGG the option for access dates, which we do the first time around. Try that . I only reviewed the draft as if he were a living person. Musicians have to pass WP:MUSIC, a standard I never quite seem to get right, so I can't tell you if he passes that one. I do know that a band member has to be pretty special to get a named article, and that they are usually redirected to the band itself. Fiddle Faddle 08:04, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

@Timtrent: Thank you for explaining about why Woody (band member) wouldn't get his own article. I only thought that he should since William "Will" Farquarson who is no more notable as he is also "merely" a band member of Bastille *did* get an article. I see that the correct answer is *not* that Woody and Kyle should *also* get articles like Will. It's that I need to ask them to take down Will's article based on A7 "notability" for WP:MUSIC. The correct course of action is to roll info and details about individual band members of Bastille into the Bastille (band) main article until one of them becomes more "notable" (like, Bono or something). (note: I have no issue with Dan Smith - lead singer and founder of Bastille having his own article because he is truly special, but Will is no different than Woody or Kyle.). So, *new question*: how do I ask that Will Farquarson be taken down and add Will Farquarson, Chris "woody" wood and Kyle Simmons to wikipedia to "redirect" to Bastille (band)? thanks bunches for all the help Librariegrrl (talk) 03:47, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Librariegrrl: Take the following steps, in order.

1. OnTalk:Will Farquarson start a new section explaining what you believe needs to happen along the lines of "Since Fred is not really notable in his own right, I will be merging the relevant material into the band's article. To allow for objections I will wait a couple of days before I do this." Use your own words and name the band article proper, linking to it
2. After the period has elapsed, merge the relevant details, saying in your edit summary what you are doing
3. On completion of the merge, there is no need to ask for the member to be deleted. Instead you turn it into a redirect to the band article by replacing 100% of the text in it (This included any categories, etc) with #REDIRECT[[Insert non-formatted text here]] where the non formatted text is the name of the target article.
4. State on the band member's talk page that the material is now merged and that you have turned the page into a redirect

We use redirects in these circumstances because the person's name is a valid reader entry point. Indeed, it is valid to create redirects for every band member of a significant band to point to the band's article. My view is that every good Wikipedia editor should do this.

The important thing with an existing article that you are turning into a redirect, unless you are the only editor, is to seek consensus first, hence the message on the talk page. If you are the only editor, WP:BOLD applies. Note, though, that you may not go against a consensus. So, if folk object to your original message, and the arguments against outweigh the arguments for, leave it as it stands. Fiddle Faddle 07:47, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Timtrent:Thanks so much. I will follow the steps that you outlined. Hopefully I will have time this weekend. Thanks again for your help. Librariegrrl (talk) 22:27, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Change

Upon reading about auto confirmed users, I visited this page page. Did I do any damage to my profile, there my username is red linked and at this page it is ok.--Vin09 (talk) 04:25, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Vin09: You have been to two different Wikipedias. simple and en. Fiddle Faddle 07:34, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Draft:Comidor

Hi Timtrent, Really sorry for that, it was not my intention to offend anyone. I tried to replace the whole part with my own words. Can you have a look now and let me know about your thoughts? Thanks a lot for your time! Best Regards, Tony (talk 13:33, 7 May 2015 (UTC+2)

@Antpetsas: One of the first things we try to check is copyvio stuff, so it surprises me that they missed it. It isn't a rule exactly. It is protecting Wikipedia from legal action by the copyright owner that is vital. WP:COPYRIGHTS tells you more than you want to know.

I would have handled that section another way, as it says in my note, and I recommend it to you. It will create a better article. But this is your draft, and I can only advise. I do not re-revoew very often. More yes provide you with better feedback, so continue to improve the draft and resubmit it as often as you need to gain more feedback. Fiddle Faddle 10:44, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Timtrent: In any case mr Tim I would like to thank you for your time and support. If you could provide me with some additional feedback it would be wonderful. This is only my first attempt to post a wikipedia article and I thought that just a reference would be enough on this occassion. Best regards! Cheers! Tony (talk 13:53, 7 May 2015 (UTC+2)

12:38:08, 7 May 2015 review of submission by Fuddyb88

• Fuddyb88 (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:Reza Kabul (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Hey. I need a re-review on the previous draft because Architect Reza Kabul is one of India's prominent architects especially in the high-rise and hospitality sector.

The idea of having his work online is not as advertisement. I am working on the changes that you have suggested. I shall resubmit my draft after finding more references and citations.

However, I do have a question in mind : a page with far less references and citation is allowed : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafeez_Contractor

Therefore I would want to understand whether the advertisement looking format was the only reason for denial?

Appreciate your patience.

Thanks. Fuddyb88 (talk) 12:38, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Fuddyb88: I need several things in my life, too, notably the magic word.

No precedent is ever set by any article for any other. If it were we would have a brutally fast descent into idiocracy Fiddle Faddle 13:52, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Lack of magic word means nothing is about to happen from me. Ask your mother for a refund for the lessons you failed to grasp, please. Fiddle Faddle 22:32, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Dcw2003

I have two quick issues TimTrent. I want to know how to run the process (bot?) that does auto citations, or in other words references multiple citations of the same exact source to a single reference number rather than sucessive numbers.

Two, I am looking for user PHRSE, is there a way to search for a user in order to talk with him? Thanks!!!

Previous request was from dcw2003

@Dcw2003: Not hard, I'm pleased to say. First reFill:

I have it in my tools in the left hand menu. It arrived one day, so I imagine you have it too. I run it this way:

1. click options
2. when they load, and sometimes they refuse, untick the option for not adding access date
3. Click run, or fix page
4. WAIT
5. Eventually, when it finishes, follow the prompts and be amazed.

Not sure? Create a sandbox and try it out

Ok, now that user. I tried the searches and failed. So we track them down by working out where you have seen them before. If that fails you deploy {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask the question. A handy soul will be along to help in a shorter time than you might expect. Fiddle Faddle 18:24, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Not got reFill? WP:REFILL tells you how to get it. Complex, but you CAN do it!!! Fiddle Faddle 18:27, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

06:08:51, 8 May 2015 review of submission by Juamari

• Juamari (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:Proyecto ContraSIDA por Vida (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Juamari (talk) 06:08, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Dear Reviewer--

I am asking for clarification on the comments provided. The topic of the article itself is well referenced by several university press books and established academic articles. While the topic is focused on the Latino LGBT community, it is also of interest to other LGBT groups, AIDS historians; public health professionals. The primary objection seems to be with the People's section. The people section is included because this organization was the launching pad for several important academics, artists and activists, some of which have wikipedia pages, and some of which do not. I am interested in editing further and want advise on what would strengthen the article-- should I secure more references for the individuals cited in the People's section, or simply delete that, even though I think it provides important linages, or list fewer names with more established reputations? Please advise, I think this is a worth contribution that merit inclusion.

06:08, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Juamari: I would drop the People section entirely. Notability is never inherited. And I would seek online links to the other references if available. And please do not let it linger for 6 months. Fiddle Faddle 08:18, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Request on 14:52:27, 8 May 2015 for assistance on AfC submission by Steve Last

• Steve Last (talk · contribs)
  • User:Steve Last/sandbox (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Dear Jim

Thank you for reviewing my article, which I have to admit was submitted more in hope than expectation that a first version would be acceptable! I hope to be able to resubmit a shorter version on lines which you will find are more in accordance with Wiki principles. I would however like your advice about one aspect of meeting that requirement. While you may have detected that I do have a personal view on the subject, I appreciate the need for verifiability and objectivity etc. in Wikipedia.

My problem is that the basic issue is one with significant public safety aspects. For a number of reasons I won't bore you with it may start to generate significant attention, but a large amount of the basic research on the subject has been in danger of getting lost. Consequently I have spent a lot of the last year tracking down old papers, many of which are not in a particularly useful format, being either poor photocopies, or simply images of old documents, which are hard to read as well as impossible to search.

A lot of these I have re-scanned, OCR'd, and proofed, while being very careful not to edit any text other than for spelling etc. I've then republished them as PDFs, which are available on a website dedicated to this subject. Everything done from online sources is clearly in the public domain since I found it just by searching; the originals of all paper sources are in my possession.

So you can see that it is important to me that readers are definitely able to verify statements made on this subject, as I do not want to just quote from sources but make them available in their entirety, far more easily than they are at present. However, these new PDFs can only be accessed from my own site.

So before I spend a lot of time rewriting the article, my questions are whether

(1) the conversion of original sources into a more accessible format counts as "Original research" ?

(2) does the fact that anyone wanting to access these more usable versions will have to go to via my own website invalidate them as reliable references for wikipedia purposes? Obviously they should still be available on their original site as well.

You can see the site at www.picma.org.uk where one of the main menu items is actually "available documents". The lists are incomplete as I still have several hundred to annotate for relevance.

Regards Steve Last

Steve Last (talk) 14:52, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Steve Last: The thing is, Wikipedia handles only matters reported on in WP:RS because it's an encyclopaedia. Your thoughts are more for Flight magazine. What I suggest you do is to ask this question in a very condensed manner at the Teahouse Questions Forum and get a wider set of opinions by doing so.

With regard to old papers, etc, provided you have chapter and verse, they are fine, but note what we need as a reference: We require references from significant coverage about the topic of the article, and independent of it, and in WP:RS please. See WP:42. So, if they comply with that, fine. If they are internal airline reports then they are of no use. Fiddle Faddle 15:01, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Apologies, new at this - could yu expand the WP:RS and WP:42 references so I can find them please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve Last (talk • contribs) 16:02, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Steve Last: Click them? Is that not what you meant? Fiddle Faddle 16:19, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

18:56:34, 8 May 2015 review of submission by Alexandra Alice Forest

• Alexandra Alice Forest (talk · contribs)
  • User:Alexandra Alice Forest/sandbox (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Alexandra Alice Forest (talk) 18:56, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Would you please help me? I do not understand what is the problem with my article. I have provided important sources like India Today, Times of India or Bloomberg (I do not know where my Bloomberg link has gone). Greetings, Alice Forest

@Alexandra Alice Forest: I will have no time to look at this until at least 1300 UTC on Saturday. Fiddle Faddle 22:33, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Alexandra Alice Forest:  Done on the draft Fiddle Faddle 20:13, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

04:16:22, 9 May 2015 review of submission by Fuddyb88

• Fuddyb88 (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:Reza Kabul (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Hey Timtrent,

I shall definitely get started on that refund. In the meanwhile, I request you to please give my draft a re-read, as I have made the necessary changes: 1. restricted his work to selected projects that have been given recognition | 2. Mentioned under 'In the media' where people have spoken / reviewed his works.

Thanks. Fuddyb88 (talk) 04:16, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

@Fuddyb88:  Done in that I have left a comment on the draft. Thank you for the magic word Fiddle Faddle 20:22, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I have read your comment and shall start drafting an article which is more concise with references for all facts. Appreciate you doing the re-review. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fuddyb88 (talk • contribs) 04:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

How about a HEADING?

Hi Timtrent,

Thanks for looking at my article. I've removed the inline links and I would like to draw your attention to the three links to CTV, Macleans and the Globe and Mail. These are three major Canadian news sources. The articles themselves speak of David's teaching and reference the Pro Actor's Lab itself. I think that this is notability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Professional_Actor%E2%80%99s_Lab&redirect=no

Thanks again,

Thelonious — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theloniousjanke (talk • contribs) 10:59, 10 May 2015‎

@Theloniousjanke: I try not to re-review articles. Thank you for letting me know. Please resubmit and continue to improve the draft while awaiting your next review. Fiddle Faddle 20:45, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

@Theloniousjanke: I do not see those references you mention. I only see FAR too many links to the org's own web site. It will not be accepted like this. Fiddle Faddle 20:52, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Abie Bain and Draft:Abie Bain

Tim TRENT I have another problem.

I created article Abie Bain, and accidentally made a change to the draft page from whence I copied all the text to the actual article ABIE BAIN.

THERE IS NOT DIFFERENCE AT THIS TIME BETWEEN THE TWO ARTICLES REQUIRING A MERGE>

However, I am not allowed, apparently to perform this function. A merge is not really necessary, but could you take care of it or have someone else do it??????

Thanks , I'd be glad to do it but I think it requires an administrator.

From dcw2003............Sorry, i did not leave my user name in the previous note.

@Dcw2003: Since you are the sole contributor to each article and draft, I would say that the legal attribution has been satisfied. You can BLANK the draft with confidence now. Fiddle Faddle 22:11, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Kaiho Sangyo (09:25, 11 May 2015 (UTC))

Thank you very much for your prompt answer Timtrent! I understood your comment about WP:42 and I will fix the problem in the article tomorrow. I m waiting for the comments from WikiProject Japan! Best regards

Alejandro R Moreno (talk) 10:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Alejandro R Moreno: I am not sure whether there is a problem with references or not. I wanted to pre-empt there being any. I do see an issue with the tone, which needs to become "Dull-but-worthy" instead of chatty. Fiddle Faddle 10:05, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Timtrent:Thank you for the comment! This is my first contribution to Wikipedia so I still have a lot to learn. I really appreciate your help and your time. Tomorrow I will try to use a more objective language. Problaby your comment points to the "Corporate philosophy" section, I realize about what the problem is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alejandro R Moreno (talk • contribs) 11:19, 11 May 2015‎

@Timtrent:Today I could add new independent references and I corrected the article tone. Any other advice, idea, correction will be more than welcome. Thank you again! --Alejandro R Moreno (talk) 05:19, 12 May 2015 (UTC)　

Review... 20 days ago

Good morning!

Just wondering where my review is in the queue! I know you are super busy and I so appreciate all the feed back. I hope you have a wonderful day.

PattiMoly99 (talk) 14:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@PattiMoly99: There is not so much a queue as a backlog, handled by a group of volunteers who are watching that backlog grow ever larger. I cannot say when your submission will be reviewed, I can say that it will be, but that is all. We pick the articles we feel capable of reviewing at the time we look at them, rather more on a whim than with a system. Fiddle Faddle 14:53, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

What I can say is that it took me detective work to find Draft:SHINE Medical Technologies, and a link to it would have made my life faster and easier. Fiddle Faddle 14:54, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

OH goodness!! So sorry!! I'm still a newbie at this!! Have a fantastic day!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by PattiMoly99 (talk • contribs) 15:04, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Admin Help

I messed up a move reverting the vandal move and ended up with Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Article titles please sort out my well intentioned mess. Fiddle Faddle 15:11, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

The title is still messed up (with the word "Wikipedia" duplicated)... please fix. Blueboar (talk) 15:14, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Blueboar: I cannot. I am not an admin and it needs one. Fiddle Faddle 15:15, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

 Fixed - it's back at WIkipedia:Article titles. JohnCD (talk) 15:19, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

For which much thanks, JohnCD Fiddle Faddle 15:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Draft: The Naked Convos page review

Hi Timtrent,

You reviewed my draft exactly a month ago and I made adjustments a few days after and resubmitted. Since then I haven't heard anything. Please do have a look soon. Here is the link: Draft:The_Naked_Convos

Thank you, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Seryxme. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seryxme (talk • contribs) 15:20, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Seryxme: I try very hard never to re-review a draft. I saw it earlier and was tempted to look, but you will get a better result form a different pair of eyes. Fiddle Faddle 15:24, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh, ok then. But how do I get someone else to look at this ASAP? I'd really like this to go up soon so I'd want to know if I still need to make adjustments. Please let me know if you can help refer another reviewer.

Thanks. Seryxme (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Seryxme: You could ask at the Article For Creation Help Desk. Please continue to look for improvements while waiting for a review, and continue to make good edits. Fiddle Faddle 15:34, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Alright then. Thank you. Seryxme (talk) 15:38, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Seryxme: I realise I seem unhelpful. I'm rather more tired than I noticed. I shall go offline for a while. Do use the helpdesk Fiddle Faddle 15:53, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Moving articles to userspace drafts rather than copying them

User:Thestudent1461/sandbox is a copy of War in Afghanistan (2001–present). For some reason, you indicated that the article page should be moved to the userspace draft page, rather than simply allowing its contents to be copied. This doesn't make sense. Can you explain why you wanted this to happen? Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:59, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Jackmcbarn: Indeed it does not. I seem to be making bizarre mistakes today. The sandbox version is the copy and should go (as I am sure you will agree). I am about to go online for a much needed break judging by my errors. Thank you for asking me gently Fiddle Faddle 16:02, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

21:06:35, 11 May 2015 review of submission by Darawier

• Darawier (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:Eugene Richie (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Darawier (talk) 21:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC) Dear Timtrent, thank you for your very speedy review of this entry, and for suggesting revision to the references. I've fixed it up now, adding the missing reference, and also adding headings in their proper places, as well more links to external sources. I hope the notability of this entry is clear now, but please let me know if you feel any further clarification would be useful. Darawier (talk) 21:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Darawie: I'm glad you have resubmitted t., Please continue to improve it while waiting for the next review. I do not often re-revoew drafts. Several sets of eyes give a better end result. Fiddle Faddle 21:30, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

my submission for Otto Kuhni

I am new to wiki having difficulty understanding instructions My father is a well known retired illustrator he is 88 years old I am not meaning to post a resume for him He certainly doesn't need that many of his illustrator friends are listed on wiki (peter max for example) His hot wheels designs alone qualify him let alone Hall of Fame induction Google him please I know you must be crazy busy I have only posted facts readily avail from other sources online no personal feelings or opinions I have edited my first submission to follow your format for other illustrators Please assist me

Alkuhni (talk) 12:12, 12 May 2015 (UTC)alkuhniAlkuhni (talk) 12:12, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

@Alkuhni: I think you would benefit from having a mentor. If you agree, please visit WP:CO-OP and make a request.

At the same time, read WP:YFA which may help the mists to clear. Your father may be notable, but it is up to you to verify that with references. The item you produced looked very much like a resumé, something we do not allow. Fiddle Faddle 14:52, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

00:51:48, 13 May 2015 review of submission by Dabraham

• Dabraham (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:JSON Web Signature (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I've added text to explain to people not familiar with web technologies why JWS is important. I've also linked to a number of articles within wikipedia regarding relevant concepts.

If there's some concept that isn't getting across, please let me know what you're not getting and I'll see if I can explain it better.

Thank you very much.

Dabraham (talk) 00:51, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

That means I can understand it better now, I suggest two things:

1. resubmit for further review
2. while awaiting review strive for further referencing that is independent of the topic. We require references from significant coverage about the topic of the article, and independent of it, and in WP:RS please. See WP:42

I do not re-review, believing that further pairs of eyes do the draft a better service. Fiddle Faddle 07:12, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Regarding your message in my Talk Page

Hi,

As you mentioned, I added Promotional content to Shivprasad Koirala article, can you please describe so I can remove those links Immediately. I do not have any intention to promote anybody. I just added book links to verify if user want to check either that is true or not.

Prithvi Raj Bhatt || http://www.pyarb.com 13:02, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

The entire article is promotional. 100%. Fiddle Faddle 13:03, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Regarding your message in my Talk Page (2)

Timrent, I'm trying to understand what, in your opinion, is wrong with the presentation of the historical material in my draft. I'm not discussing a philosophical topic like "What is truth?" There one would have to write "According to Aristotle...", "In Platon's view...", "Luther is of the opinion...", "Calvin thought..." The article deals with history. Its language is the language historians use. The sentence which supposedly does not record but analyse the historical material is not isolated. It is followed by a few other sentences, and then a Reference (Heinrich Bornkamm...) This reference (or citation) indicates that the historical facts in the preceding sentences have been taken over from an encyclopedic article by historian Heinrich Bornkamm in "Die Religion in Geschichte und Gegenwart" ... (By the way, the academic standard of RGG equals that of Encyclopedia Britannica.) He analysed a mass of historical data and condensed the relevant facts into a few sentences. So there was analysis. But it is not mine, but that of an outstanding expert in the fields of church and general history. If I added "According to historian Heinrich Bornkamm, ..." this would be redundant, as Bornkamm is mentioned in the Reference. Reduncancy is the last thing an encyclopedic article should have. But of course, it would be possible to introduce Bornkamm to the reader of he article. I'll do that in the passage "Definition", where I refer to Bornkamm for the first time. As I said, I use the language historians use. A few examples from wi:en. In the article on Martin Luther King, time and again one, two or more sentences about King's life and activities are followed by a citation. In the article "English Civil War" the chapter "Parliament in the English constitutional framework" consists of 16 lines that have a single citation at the end. Nowhere is there any "According to ..." Nevertheless, I will do what you ask me to do. Just tell me. Speahlman (talk) 18:56, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

@Speahlman: Before we travel the road of what I want, let's take me out of the equation. Ask at the Articles For Creation Help desk for a further set of eyes on your draft to ensure both that I am correct (or not) and that you understand what is needed. I am perfectly content to be shown to be incorrect. How does that sit with you? Fiddle Faddle 19:13, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Please do use headings!

Hi Timtrent. Thank you for your helpful comments on my article. Can you let me know how I did? I cleaned up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:RXR_Realty,_LLC — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haneedesigns (talk • contribs) 19:15, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

@Haneedesigns: What I think will serve you better is for you to resubmit the draft for review. That way you will get a new pair of eyes, something that always works better than the old set. Fiddle Faddle 19:19, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I do appreciate your help.

Hello, I do appreciate your help and apologize for all the back and forth. Would you please take a look at the page and let me know if the references are how they need to be or if I need to do the differently? Thank you DMRRT (talk) 23:55, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I have run out of enthusiasm and interest in this article and in trying to help you, and have found that we have a different definition of dialogue, you and I. You have all the information you need in order to make your references as compliant with our requirements as you can. Even with excellence of referencing I doubt the article will be retained. If you need help please ask someone else. I have laboured with you long enough without your reaching any form of understanding. Doing what one has always done and expecting different results is the act of a fool. I am not a fool. Fiddle Faddle 06:30, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Good work

with our angry AfD commentator. I left a note also. DGG ( talk ) 00:07, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks DGG. When one gets to the point that they cannot hear what is said, after a while one cuts one's losses. All I can say is "I tried". I note they have asked for more help in the thread just above this, yet they have enough information and rehashing the same material, at least by me, is likely to be fruitless. The AFD has a few more days to run. I think there is a probability that the article will be deleted. I think the work they are putting in is huge, but in the wrong direction. Truly less is more here. Who knows, they may even have followed my advice and edited it down!

If you have a few pointers for them they might be able to hear a different voice, but it's a lot to ask of you. I very nearly asked you to join in with your aptitude for cutting to the chase over academics and referencing but thought you would probably see it anyway. Fiddle Faddle 06:25, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Of course, you might have meant the other one! Isn't the written word wonderful when it can be interpreted in the way one decides rather than the way it is meant! Fiddle Faddle 06:34, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

don't count on my seeing things. I go back and forth between many different things, so what I notice is often accidental. Just Ping. It is always hard to tell who might actually respond, but I do not think that they are open to listening to anyone. But since you ask, I will give it a try. DGG ( talk ) 08:13, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

iServer proposed deletion

Hi there,

My apologies for deleting the Article-for-deletion notice - this was accidental when I made the article title a lower case template. iServer is a product developed by Orbus Software, whose page was recently deleted. Could this be why the iServer page is now being flagged for lack of notability? The iServer page was flagged right after the Orbus Software page was deleted so I'm just trying to understand a bit better the problems with this page

Many thanks in advance