:François Louis, 'The Genesis of an Icon: The "Taiji" Diagram's Early History', Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 63.11 (June 2003), 145–196.
:François Louis, 'The Genesis of an Icon: The "Taiji" Diagram's Early History', Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 63.11 (June 2003), 145–196.
but I do not have access to it from where I am sitting. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] <small>[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]</small> 11:27, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
but I do not have access to it from where I am sitting. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] <small>[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]</small> 11:27, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
:[[File:Notitia Dignitatum - Magister Peditum 4.jpg|thumb|Shield pattern of the ''armigeri defensores seniores'' (4th row, third from left)<ref name="Giovanni Monastra (2000)"/><ref name="Isabelle Robinet (2008), 934"/><ref name="Helmut Nickel (1991), 146, 5"/>]]See [[Notitia Dignitatum]]: The ''Notitia'' contains the earliest known depictions of the diagram which later came to be known as [[yin and yang symbol]].<ref name="Giovanni Monastra (2000)">Giovanni Monastra: ''[http://www.estovest.net/tradizione/yinyang_en.html#t24 The "Yin-Yang" among the Insignia of the Roman Empire?]'', ''Sophia'', Bd. 6, Nr. 2 (2000)</ref><ref name="Isabelle Robinet (2008), 934">Isabelle Robinet: "Taiji tu. Diagram of the Great Ultimate", in: Fabrizio Pregadio (ed.): ''The Encyclopedia of Taoism A−Z'', Routledge, Abingdon (Oxfordshire) 2008, ISBN 978-0-7007-1200-7, pp. 934−936 (934)</ref><ref name="Helmut Nickel (1991), 146, 5">Helmut Nickel: ''The Dragon and the Pearl'', ''Metropolitan Museum Journal'', Bd. 26 (1991), S. 146, Fn. 5</ref>
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This article refers to the yin-yang symbol as symmetrical. However, for an image to be symmetrical, it has to consist of two halves that are mirror images of each other. The yin-yang symbol is made up of two halves that are 180 degree rotations of each other, not mirror images. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.128.78 (talk) 06:36, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The taiji concept is Chinese origin, from the well-spring of ancient knowledge. Please don't pollute the concept with the foreign things, especially from those time of Western had no culture, only the caveman things. You should think long and hard to respect Chinese culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C5F7:EB00:7C02:3760:51CC:D764 (talk) 04:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dear unsigned user, this is an English-language page dealing with a symbol whose usage was first attested in a European context and not in any "cave art" as you put it but rather in Celtic and Roman art or symbolism, centuries before its attested use anywhere else. The symbol as such is not derived from any Chinese philosophy, it's simply a universal geometric symbol that has come to be used by and has come to be strongly associated with certain Chinese schools of philosophy. Those philosophies have their own pages, if you are looking for them. The fact that this symbol has come to be referred to as a "yin and yang symbol" in English and other European languages, despite its usage being first attested in a European context should be taken as a compliment, not as an affront. Just like for instance the case is with the famous number puzzle game Sudoku, where the Japanese name is used internationally despite Sudoku not being an original Japanese invention. There's absolutely no malicious intent in either case, quite the contrary in fact. It's a direct and explicit recognition of their prominent usage in non-Western contexts. What more could you ask for?
The problem, i.e. your problem, seems to be the fact that what should be a page simply called "yin and yang (symbol)" redirects to "Taijitu" which is a term that (as far as I can tell) more explicitly assumes the whole underlying Chinese philosophical system rather than just the geometric symbol as such. From reading the archived discussions on this page, it seems that the choice of "Taijitu" as the page's name was a concession made because of one very persistent editor who was pushing for the primacy if not exclusivity of this symbol's usage in the context of Chinese philosophy. So, the compromise so to speak was to keep the article's universality but as a concession to name it as if it was about the Chinese philosophical system ;) It's not the best choice of name IMHO, since this philosophical system is dealt with in other Wikipedia pages and the term "Taijitu" is not one commonly used for this symbol internationally, at least not in the English language. The name "Taijitu" will undoubtedly invite a few reactions like yours, since some people will wonder why European symbols appear on a page ostensibly about Chinese philosophy. But this is not the result of anyone pushing a Western/European agenda, this is the intended or unintended result of those pushing for Chinese exclusivity when it comes this symbol as I've already explained above regarding the concession or compromise made with the naming of this page. If it was up to me, I would have moved this page to "yin and yang (symbol)" as that would have made things more clear to you and to everyone else, but my guess is that it wouldn't take long for someone to again start an edit war with the desire to more strongly emphasize the Chinese philosophical system and then we would probably end up again with another bad compromise ;)
As the Chinese symbol is most certainly younger than AD 1300, any connection to ornamental patterns "found in Ukraine and is millenias older than Celts and Romans together" is ostensibly irrelevant, except in the limited context of the Expo 2010 idea of drawing an artificial connection between them. --dab(𒁳)10:52, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Why paragraph on taijitu in Trypillian culture removed?
If mentions of similar symbols among Celts and Romans are present, why is mentions of Trypillian culture removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.43.201 (talk) 12:08, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
I added informations on this subject again. Examples are easly visible on photos from articles in references. 178.36.43.201 (talk) 12:30, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
well, it's interesting and charming in the context of Expo 2010, but it's not exactly "notable". Of course it can be mentioned, but then it should have some kind of decent reference, not a random url. It's a cute idea Ukraine came up with for their pavilion in 2010. It doesn't have any deeper "meaning" beyond that. --dab(𒁳)08:29, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
First record of the modern symbol
The article is suspiciously silent on actual Chinese sources for the modern symbol.
The closest we have is Lai Zhide (16th century). This symbol is clearly similar to the modern design, and may be a remote predecessor. Then the next thing we have are modern pop-culture items. So, the article has a gap of 400 years.
The earliest representation of the modern design I found so far is the "cycle of Cathay" by Parsons (1897). So it seems plausible the modern symbol was developed in China at some point between 1590 and 1890, unless we want to assume it was made up by Parsons himself. More detail on its development during this period is needed. --dab(𒁳)08:33, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Found this -- apparently, the "dots" can be traced to as early as 1370.
At the same time, most examples predating 1900 (or 1960, for that matter) do not have the dots.
The relevant study seems to be
François Louis, 'The Genesis of an Icon: The "Taiji" Diagram's Early History', Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 63.11 (June 2003), 145–196.
Shield pattern of the armigeri defensores seniores (4th row, third from left)[1][2][3]See Notitia Dignitatum: The Notitia contains the earliest known depictions of the diagram which later came to be known as yin and yang symbol.[1][2][3]
^ abIsabelle Robinet: "Taiji tu. Diagram of the Great Ultimate", in: Fabrizio Pregadio (ed.): The Encyclopedia of Taoism A−Z, Routledge, Abingdon (Oxfordshire) 2008, ISBN 978-0-7007-1200-7, pp. 934−936 (934)
^ abHelmut Nickel: The Dragon and the Pearl, Metropolitan Museum Journal, Bd. 26 (1991), S. 146, Fn. 5
