Talk:List of Darker than Black characters

Romanisation of Hei's alias

Stop changing the romanisation of Hei's alias! If you refer to episode 11 of season 1, you will be able to see the actual Chinese characters used for his alias (timecode 04:57), which is 李舜生. The proper Hanyu Pinyin is Li3 Shun4 Sheng1, not whatever weird versions that people with no idea how 李舜生 should be read keeps changing it to. I am also aware of the romanisation offered by the translators, which is Lee ShenShun, and they are wrong and that fact can be easily verified if you check it with adapt speakers or online dictionaries. The proper romanisation for his name is obviously and definitely Li Shun Sheng according to the Chinese characters shown in the anime (as you can see in episode 11). Firstly, why Lee? Unless it is a romanisation of his name in his Chinese dialect (and that only happens for people of Chinese heritage living elsewhere). And why did people decide to switch his name around? He is not Shengshun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.13.235 (talk) 03:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

On the subject of Coren Bot

Why is the text on this page substantially similar to the text on http://kazhee.multiply.com/reviews/item/2? --Iamunknown 07:25, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

• It's either a mirror or intentional copy of this page. That was evidently copied as of 15 June, which is about a million years younger than the original (Wikipedia's). -_-; This page is nothing but a routine split of an oversized character section. That bot makes more false positives than it's worth. -Biokinetica 07:38, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Okay! Thanks for pointing that out. Specifically, this revision, which is was posted at 21:04, June 13, 2007, shows that the text came from Wikipedia, since the blog post is later (Jun 15, '07 4:52 AM). The bot does make false positives, but as long as human editors are checking up on it, we delete only the things that are actually copyvios.  :-) Cheers! --Iamunknown 07:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Other important characters/contractors

Why is it that some of the other side characters/contractors, which played an important role, in some episodes not added? Some including Kenji or Shioko. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erriderate (talk • contribs) 19:30, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

Shoko added at bottom. I propose Brita to be added, when someone find seiyu and a suitable picture. She has appeared in around 5 episodes so far(more than maki, yet he is included), and is a major participant of EPR's objectives. Her remuneration is to give a kiss to the people she teleports, and cannot teleport a person's clothes. Also is a nudist, no inhibitions about walking around nude, as she frequently does after she teleports.

58.110.144.218 11:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)GinLime

The MI6 agent Jack Simon appears to be based on Elijah Snow from the American WildStorm comic Planetary based on his powers and the girl July on Storm from the American comics X-Men. STYLUSS 14:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Conjecture is not admissible here. -Biokinetica 20:50, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Shoko added at bottom. I propose Brita to be added, when someone find seiyu and a suitable picture. She has appeared in around 5 episodes so far(more than maki, yet he is included), and is a major participant of EPR's objectives. Her remuneration is to give a kiss to the people she teleports, and cannot teleport a person's clothes. Also is a nudist, no inhibitions about walking around nude, as she frequently does after she teleports.

Hold on a second; nobody knows what her remuneration is because it's never been said or even implied. If you notice that she only kisses someone when she wants to teleport them, you might come to the conclusion that in order to take someone with her, she must touch their body. A kiss may simply be her preferred method of physical contact. As for her comfort while not in clothing, that doesn't mean she's a nudist, just that her ability only extends to her physical body. The fact that she walks around naked after she teleports only says that she hasn't gotten a new set of clothes yet. And next time, post at the bottom of a section. -Biokinetica 06:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

In episode 24, Brita kissed Amagiri after teleporting him, and responds to his protests by saying it's her remuneration. Also, shortly afterwards in the same scene, Amagiri offers her some clothing he took from the guards they defeated, but she says she'd prefer to be without. Rexas 11:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

i thinks Hei's contract could be showing affection maybe 9/25 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.225.138.122 (talk) 06:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

• The answer here is no, you'll understand when you watch ep25. I think we'll need to change Hei's description and contractors on main page also. Reply after you've watched it. GinLime 21:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)GinLime

In episode 24, Brita kissed Amagiri after teleporting him, and responds to his protests by saying it's her remuneration. Also, shortly afterwards in the same scene, Amagiri offers her some clothing he took from the guards they defeated, but she says she'd prefer to be without.

Yes, I see that now, and it's there. -Biokinetica 08:32, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Schroeder (don't know his first name) and Eric Nishijima (sp?) should be included as well; they are significant characters within the plot. Also should be included are the detective and his pink-haired sidekick, as they appear in quite a few episodes as the main characters, even. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.229.125.106 (talk) 01:45, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

• The only reason nobody added him before is because nobody knew what he was. Besides, there were more important things to do at the time, like keep Hei's profile in check to keep the 'thinkers' from throwing in their little theories. I theorize as well, but not on Wikipedia. -Biokinetica 22:30, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

~ Oh yeah, I also noticed that someone has edited quite a lot of information. With some information concerning Shioko, wouldn't the last part with the suiciding be off? Just activating your powers with no effects won't force you to make an act of remuneration. It's speculated that Shioko activated her powers to the point of the red Synchrotron pupils to force Huang to move aside (By reflex and common sense dodging and all), letting her suicide for the sake of him. Edit this, somebody? Erriderate 05:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

What about Gai and Kiko who are certainly more important than some of these "important contractors"? 151.197.36.149 (talk) 13:42, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

If Gai and his assistant are to be added, someone make a note that most of the time, they did comical stuff. I agree on Eric, since he became an important character in the middle of the show. Can probably do that if no one's doing it. Ominae (talk) 23:17, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Amber and time

Biokinetica wanted to debate about Amber's ability to predict future events (:D), so I thought I'd give a little comment. First of all, there's no doubt about Amber being able to foresee events that are about to happen (I can list examples if you wish), and no limit to her ability is given. Since she created the Evening Primrose during the South America war primarily to fight the Syndicate, she must've known their intentions already at that time. Therefore I'd say she's able to see at least 5 years foward. Considering what happended during the latter half of the series, she can at least predict events some weeks in advantage. It's also rather misleading to call it "predicting" or "foreseeing". What she does is actually living to see what happens and then rewinding time back to a point where she can take action. Rexas 11:55, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

• • I have recall 2 occasions that Amber has rewound time:

1. Amagiri & Brita getting being turned into kentucky fried humans by Mai's ability. (ep23? 24?) 2. Reversal associated with Saturn system (ep25) However, it seems that after rewinding time, she significantly turns younger, thus she would be unable to just keep living through life and reversing it over and over again. Predicting time: 1. Umbrella forecast being splashed by traditional japanese restraunt 2. November 11's Death That being said, I do see your point about Amber living and then reversing time , Rexas, as Amber noted in her first reunion with Hei that "she has lived and searched throughout time, just to see Hei's smile once again" or something to that extent

GinLime 08:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)GinLime

• I don't doubt the rewinding of time, just how far she could 'see' into the future. Living through is once and than resetting it does answer that question, but allows one more to be asked, and leaves one unresolved.

1) If she lives through once and resets it telling November that he's going to die soon, than how does she know that he's going to die even though different courses of action are taking place this time around?

2) How does she show Amagiri his future if she's nowhere near him? Surely the guy doesn't retain memories of something that hasn't happened yet. -Biokinetica 14:04, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

1) The reason why November 11 died was because of him finding out the truth about the Syndicate, and it was Amber herself who provided him with that information. Thus, not only does she know about November's fate, but she's also indirectly responcible for his death. She knew the reason to his death and did nothing that would change that scenario.

2) Based on our knowledge of Amber's powers, the only logical option is that she was there, but due to her manipulation of time the other characters, that were within the effects of normal time flow, were unable to detect her presence. The egg Amagiri has in his pocket was left there by Amber as an evidence of her passing by. Therefore, the most probable answer is, that Amagiri indeed had no memories of their first failed attempt, but finding an egg in his pocket, that wasn't there before, made him realise Amber had recently tampered with time. He is clearly more cautious as they approach the accelerator the next time round, since he now knew to expect an assault of some sort. Rexas 19:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the information concerning Amber's basis of abilities and renumeration, time exploitation, should be put under more specific and exact grounds. For instance, concerning her renumeration, the given information leads to multiple leads on what it exactly is. "Aging backwards" sounds a lot like what it means, in contrast if it were to be a saying. Her renumeration must be confirmed if she really does "age backwards" throughout time after the use of her abilities, or if she becomes younger corresponding to what extent of her abilities were currently used. In other words, is her renumeration to constantly age backwards, or if she ages backward instantly after usage? Erriderate 00:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Since it's the fee of a Contractor's contract, remuneration obviously takes place only and directly after exercise of contractual powers. This is basic concept in the series. The severity of Amber's remuneration seems to be corresponding to the lenght and complexity of her time manipulation, but since this can be debated and I found it as an unnecessary detail, I didn't add it to the article. After all, this article is only supposed to give an overall introduction of the characters and their abilities that are relevant to the plotline.Rexas 09:19, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

• I do think you're right about the above two answers to my questions from before, but I don't think we should say that the amount of years aged corresponds with the degree of time manipulation since we have no way of measuring that. It seems as though others like Amagiri have to perform their remunerations in that fashion, but that wasn't made apparent with Maki or Jean. -Biokinetica 22:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, as I said, it only seemed that way to me and it's debatable detail, which is why I didn't add it to the article (the other reason being that it was not that relevant, in my opinion). As I watched the episodes, I had the impression that while simply freezing time for a brief period did very little changes in Amber's appearance, the rewinding process made her grow significantly younger. This becomes most evident in the last two episodes, where Amber probably had to perform the rewinding several times, not only to help Amagiri, but others as well during the EPR's attack, and finally freeze time to enter the Gate, past all security. Rexas 08:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

So, someone messed up the article then. Revert the incorrect changes, anyone? Rexas 08:42, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, and I did; reverted back to about 10, October. There was too much original research and plot commentary anyway. It's probably good practice to keep all character pages on the subject of the characters themselves rather than details specific to the plot. What Amber does with her 'knowledge' and Shihoko plans to do with Huang are plot details that don't directly describe the character. -Biokinetica 06:17, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

• Now i've got a concern about this line:

As to emphasize this, she often goes as far as to order her subordinates to avoid fighting Hei, even though this usually compromises their given mission objective.

I'm not so sure about that. Every time Hei tried to intervene (whether intentional or not), the worst that befell the Evening Primrose was getting side-tracked. I think Amber was pretty much in control the whole time. -Biokinetica 03:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

1. In episode 20, Amagiri is on a mission to get the dolls supplied by the cult Founder. Hei intervenes. Since Amagiri is forbidden to kill Hei, he cannot stop him from reaching the Founder. As a result, the EPR's supplier dies and they're forced to back off. 2. In episode 22, Wei and Brita end up fighting Hei to ensure Amber's flight. Since they're only ordered to slow him down instead of killing him, Hei gets away. As a result, Amber is almost killed, if not for Bai's interference.

Also, in episode 16, Maki goes against Amber's orders and tries to fight Hei, and is subsequently abandoned by the EPR and killed by November 11. With the loss of EPR's bombing expert, the building bombings in Tokyo stopped and later attempts to carry them on failed. Rexas 16:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

• In the first instance, Amagiri still gets the dolls, so the fact that Alma dies doesn't mean much. On the second, one could argue that Hei never had the heart to kill Amber, as he stood there for quite the time staring at her through a shattered mask. I don't think Maki was "abandoned" either, and don't think that's why he died. I think he died because April came and saved Novemmber's ass. As for the loss of a building bomber, they obviously got their message across with the ones they had carried out, and don't remember any indication that they required any more. -Biokinetica 04:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

There's always room for nitpicking and arguing, but that still doesn't remove the point: prioritizing Hei's safety endangered several of EPR's missions and cost them a number of supporters. Other results, circumstances or motives are irrelevant to this. (Yet, if you're bothered by it that much, then feel free to remove that bit. It's not so important knowledge anyway, I just thought it explained about Amber's personality.) Rexas 14:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

• It's not "nitpicking", it's about whether or not any objective was compromised. If one wasn't (they were never explicitly stated to begin with anyway), then we shouldn't say there were. -Biokinetica (talk) 09:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't specifically referring to your comment, when I said there's always room to argue about small details. And I'd like to point out that compromising an objective isn't the same thing as defeating it altogether, so I don't really see what you're dragging on about. If you're seriously stating that Hei, acting as the Organization's agent, possessed no threat to any of EPR's personnel or tasks at any moment, I'd suggest you watch the show again. Rexas (talk) 20:09, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

• No one was saying any of that; I was saying that Amber was in control. Hei was a "threat", but only aesthetically. Anyone who can control time will be in control. These things are talked about because they matter, not because they don't. Hei's noticable impact on events and other characters is important, because he's the most unique. Getting the scope of these impacts right is very much worth arguing about. -Biokinetica (talk) 19:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Hei's Remuneration

Alright, people keep adding different theories to the article from time to time, in spite of the fact that they've been always removed. I'd like to clear this out for now:

1. Yeah, Hei has a habit of overeating. But it's NOT his remuneration. In episode 4, Havoc states that Hei has always had a good appetite, referring to their shared time during South America wars. At that time, Hei wasn't even a Contractor. Also, in that very same scene, Havoc says that Hei is a very strange Contractor, and that he "doesn't even seem to have an obeisance/remuneration". You'd think that she'd recognise his stuffing of food as one, if it really was the case.

2. The fact that Hei displays emotions, anger, sorrow, compassion, etc. This has lead some to think that gaining human emotions is his remuneration. This is untrue. Hei displays humane sensitivity all the time, even when he hasn't used his powers.

Lastly, it'd be very appropriate to discuss these additions beforehand on this talk page, instead of just filling in your random hunches straight to the encyclopedic article. Rexas 10:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

• In the last episode, the conversation between Hei and Amber reveals that Hei is just a normal human with contractor powers - inherited from Bai. This explains why he does not have a remuneration. Will edit article soon.58.110.145.183 04:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)GinLime

Bai / Hei's abilities

Bai has the power to alter particles on the quantum level. Electricity manipulation is the tip of the iceberg of her abilities - ie. just the beginning of her vast abilities.

the Grey haired doctor explains the reason why Heavens gate is impassible is because she changed normal particles into this impassible territory. Also this same manipulation of matter on the quantum level can change people into contractors.

Can probably edit Pai and Hei. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GinLime (talk • contribs) 08:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Is it possible for someone to also edit that Hei is not a normal Contractor, but just a human that holds a Contractor's abilities, being the only trait of a Contractor that he possesses. Pai/Hei's ability relates to the Gate's particles. Being able to turn ordinary humans into Contractors (In respect as to give them Contractor abilities via Gate particles), it can be assumed that Pai/Hei can produce any sort of ability/synchrotron light, giving them a wide array of choices. So altogether, Pai/Hei's Contractor ability is probably to manipulate the Gate's particles, which can, assumingly, be produced at will. However, it appears that the only uses for the abilities inherited by Hei are the manipulation of electricity and changing of atomic particles in the Gate. Erriderate 01:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Besides being a heavy spoiler, it would also be very confusing to people who haven't finished the whole show, to read an article that only states Hei to be a human. In my opinion, we should leave the article as it is now, save for minor polishing. After all, throughout most of the show, Hei is as much of a Contractor as one can be. And it's also misleading to say that Bai's powers were "passed onto" Hei. Technically, they are the same person, while existing at the opposite sides of the Gate. The star BK201 belongs to Bai, and it is Bai, who uses her power through Hei, according to his intention. That is the reason why Hei doesn't need to pay for the contract. So, in theory, Hei is both a human and a Contractor, while the former fact should be left for anyone watching the show to discover on their own. Rexas 09:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Epi 2 scene

Although I know that all people are not fully aware yet, but could it be possible that in episode two, in that scene where Shinoda Chiaki is seeing her parents get attacked by Contractors, the duo that attacked her parents are Pai and Hei? The figure that activates her Synchrotron light in that scene resembles Pai, and her partner right behind her resembles what would be Hei. Can someone confirm this? Erriderate 02:51, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Amber sacrifices herself? + Meteor Fragment produces illusion?

Is it known that Amber disappeared due to the remuneration? Although she said herself that she doesn't have much time left, and Hei said that she uses her ability for the last time, for her to leave her clothes on the ground and be disappeared reminds me of Brita using teleport to her comrades, which also leave another's clothes on the ground.

A point here to support, but some background first: is the "illusion" created by meteor fragment simply an illusion? If so, why did the screen that monitors the inside of Hell's Gate shows an explosion(Ep 25, after Amber touches Hei with the meteor fragment)? Can the screen, which is a real object, shows something that is an illusion? My conclusion is no. (Don't read this if you don't want to be confused, since this is only a complicated extra point which doesn't change the conclusion: I have also thought of the possibility that, the screen showing the explosion, and everyone in the country seeing the explosion, is part of the illusion that Amber tried to create. However, the reality, which should be going on in real time as the illusion happens, Saturn Ring would have destroyed the Hell's Gate already, causing all contractors to disappear. If that's so, Amber, being a contractor, would either have disappeared causing the illusion to stop, or would be unable to use her ability to go back in time afterward.) The meteor fragment causes something to happen for real.

This leads to the point: After Amber uses the meteor fragment on Hei and causes the explosion, Amber appears to be tall. Not long after, she uses her ability (which brings Hei back in time) and receives the remuneration. One would have assumed Amber would disappear since she cannot handle the remuneration while she is so young already, but if Amber has become older due to the meteor fragment, she would have survived the remuneration. After she survived the remuneration, Brita teleports her away. This is one possibility.Wsitumn (talk) 05:23, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Where did you pull the idea that it was an illusion? As was explained in the show, Amber used the Meteor Shard to turn the Hell's Gate into an impenetrable area, that was separated from the normal world, like how happened in South America. After that, Hei, Amber and others within the Gate ended up into the "other side", which apparently is a heaven-like place, where even the dead still exist. However, since Hei didn't want everyone in the normal world (around the Hell's Gate effect area) to be killed, Amber fulfilled his wish and reversed time back to the point before she activated the Shard, giving him a chance to stop the particle accelerator. Brita saving Amber is not possible, because in that case she should've appeared there the first time round as well, as it was a repetition of what happened earlier, with only the conclusion differing. Rexas (talk) 09:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I get your first part, but it doesn't really matter. I pull that idea of illusion from the Wiki page. Maybe someone would want to change that.

I don't get your last sentence. "Brita appears in the first time round", "repetition" and "conclusion"? Please explain further.Wsitumn (talk) 02:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

In short, Amber used up her power to rewind time back to the point where the particle accelerator is about to be activated. Meaning, it's the same situation they were in a moment earlier. For Brita to come retrieve Amber, (which she didn't do when they lived through that moment for the first time), she would have somehow needed to be informed that their plan to seal the gate would fail. That's not possible, as Amber had already died at that point. Rexas (talk) 13:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Building from your point, one can assume that if, Brita is informed by Amber to peep Amber from far in advance, and that if Amber does a gesture (or anything along this line), Brita would go carry her away. That way, the first time through Amber has not summoned Brita with the gesture, and so Brita had not come. When Amber goes back in time, Amber immediately calls Brita with the gesture (Amber could also freeze time and do that).

Here I am assuming the that Amber did not die due to her ability, as explained in the initiating paragraph.

My apology for the late reply, I don't check this page very frequently.Wsitumn (talk) 06:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Dblackch.jpg

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Resolved

 – I think it should works now —29th ((☎)) 06:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Images

I'm attempting to remove images of some of the less important characters, but I can only determine that based on the info in the sections. I'll need help from someone who knows more about the series. So far, I believe the Russian Intelligence images should be removed. It's kind of hard for me to determine who else. But the image under the Syndicate should stay; they seem to be the protagonists. ~Itzjustdrama ^{C ?} 20:33, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

For having not seen the series, you should've consulted previous editors before editing. A piece of important information about this series is that all non-main characters are of nearly equal importance, as the series is constructed by two-episode arcs that introduce new characters, then have them impact the storyline. After that, many of them return in subsequent episodes. The FSB agents, Maki, and Nick Hillman are the only exceptions. One trait about this series that makes it different is that there are no "unimportant" characters.-Biokinetica (talk) 13:31, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

That's interesting. I have discussed it with someone who knows the series better than I do here. However, the notification problem here is definately my fault. Well, if that's so then it might warrant images for all of them. Although the article might end up with excessive copyrighted images. I've seen the notice at the top and you guys are looking for group images. I'll restore the Police Deparment's image. ~Itzjustdrama ^{C ?} 14:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Pavlichenko's Family Name

Japanese seyu clearly say paburichenko that's Pavlichenko that should be Павличенко in Russian. However cyrillic signs show spelling Павлюченко that's Pavlyuchenko. Also Павлюченко is more common form of that family name —Chris Archer (talk) 14:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

It is doubtful that the real name of Pai is Xing.

"Xing" might be another code name. "Hei" is not Chinese, it is strange that the real name of Pai is a Chinese name. 220.104.44.217 (talk) 12:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

"Chinese pronunciation"

The article says: "Hei" is the Chinese pronunciation for the Mandarin character "黒", meaning "black." That doesn't make sense. I don't think there would be just one "Chinese pronunciation." Aren't there multiple pronunciations within China? (See Varieties_of_Chinese ) And would the character itself be Mandarin? Or would it be the pronunciation that was Mandarin? --Cloveapple (talk) 00:09, 23 February 2016 (UTC)