Talk:Lockheed Model 18 Lodestar: Difference between revisions

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Aviation: Aircraft Start‑class

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This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

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Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

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Military history: Aviation / World War II C‑class

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This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

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Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

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Survivor

Air Marcel Inc is recovering a Lockheed 18 "Lodestar" crashed in 1960 in Canada for restoration. See the website for reference. Tourist.tam (talk) 10:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Production numbers

The article quotes a total production of 625, and gives breakdowns for military variants as 211 USAAF, 33 USN (and another 35 transferred). This totals 244 military aircraft, suggesting a civilian production of about 380.

However, the article seems to imply that domestic commercial sales were very limited - "Lockheed found the Lodestar difficult to sell at home" and that overseas sales weren't exactly marvellous; the biggest single order was for about thirty. Unless there was a surge of commercial sales after the end of the war, which I doubt, this just doesn't seem to add up. Anyone have an idea how to reconcile the two? Shimgray | talk | 15:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The production list I have gives 625 aircraft (msn 18-2001 to 18-2625) and three prototypes modified from Lockheed 14s (18-1954, 18-1956 and 18-1957). I will check the totals later and come back. MilborneOne (talk) 17:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. I was wondering if the 625 total might perhaps include the civilian L-14s - our article gives 233 of those, though again the number's uncited, and this would seem to be about the right amount to fill the gap. It certainly won't be for armed developments from the L-18 - there were more than 625 in the initial order of Venturas! Shimgray | talk | 18:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article has some wrong production numbers! Civvy Model 18s (140) - USAAF (394) - USN (91) which equals 625.MilborneOne (talk) 19:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Airworthyness

The L18 seems have suffered from a large number of crashes from engine failure, and even unexplained crashes. The 1948 crash at Lae (PNG) happened when a pilot very experienced with the L18 aborted a landing and then one engine lost power. A flat spin ensued. An L18 carrying three of Australia's cabinet ministers crashed in 1940, while landing at Canberra. Eyewitness said the machine simply slid sideways into the ground during a high speed turn. These all look like a problem with the quoted Vmc and maneuvering speeds. It is likely that these are too low to guarantee controllability. The wing loading is about 40lb/sqft, which was high for 1939 but low for military planes introduced soon after then. A DC-3 has 25lb/sqft loading. A DC-6B is 60lb/sqft. A higher loading requires higher maneuvering speeds and much smaller margins of error. The L18 was trickier to fly than a DC-3, but not as difficult as most post-WW2 machines.210.185.75.105 (talk) 00:08, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 41: / Line 41: @@
 :::The article has some wrong production numbers! Civvy Model 18s (140) - USAAF (394) - USN (91) which equals 625.[[User:MilborneOne|MilborneOne]] ([[User talk:MilborneOne|talk]]) 19:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
+== Airworthyness ==
+The L18 seems have suffered from a large number of crashes from engine failure, and even unexplained crashes. The 1948 crash at Lae (PNG) happened when a pilot very experienced with the L18 aborted a landing and then one engine lost power. A flat spin ensued. An L18 carrying three of Australia's cabinet ministers crashed in 1940, while landing at Canberra. Eyewitness said the machine simply slid sideways into the ground during a high speed turn. These all look like a problem with the quoted Vmc and maneuvering speeds. It is likely that these are too low to guarantee controllability. The wing loading is about 40lb/sqft, which was high for 1939 but low for military planes introduced soon after then. A DC-3 has 25lb/sqft loading. A DC-6B is 60lb/sqft. A higher loading requires higher maneuvering speeds and much smaller margins of error. The L18 was trickier to fly than a DC-3, but not as difficult as most post-WW2 machines.[[Special:Contributions/210.185.75.105|210.185.75.105]] ([[User talk:210.185.75.105|talk]]) 00:08, 18 April 2016 (UTC)